Lost Draw (Hill Country)

There are like depressions in the earth that were created over like large rain events over a long period of time. And a draw is just an arroyo. It's a dry creek bed of a depression in the earth.

Welcome to Texas Under Vine, an exploratory podcast to scout out the best that Texas wine country has to offer. I'm your wine guide, Scott, and I'm here to lead you on an auditory expedition to the vineyards and wineries across the great Lone Star State. Each episode will cover a different vineyard, winery, or wine-related business operating in Texas. You'll hear interviews, descriptions, and details about each location that will excite you to visit and experience it for yourself. Ready to plan a wine tour? Use these episodes to choose the most interesting spots for you and your friends to check out. Most of all, enjoy hearing about the rapidly growing wine industry in the state and what makes our wines and wineries the best. Howdy, fellow vine tripper. Welcome to episode 87 of the Texas Undervine Podcast and our journey along the Texas Wine Trail. And for this episode, I'm going to reveal our wine wanderer bottle, but I'm going to wait till later on in the episode. So you're going to have to stick around to see what it is I picked at this particular location. Now, which location are you asking? Well, today we are headed out to the wine road in the hill country between Johnson City and Fredericksburg, but we're going to be leaning much further on the Johnson City side today because we are going to hit the closest winery in its proximity to Johnson City, which is Lost Draw. And we're going to be hanging out with the founder of this particular location, Andrew Sides. And it's really exciting because Andrew has such an interesting background that really bridges the gap between the farming world and the wine world. Now, Andrew is actually a third-generation farm kid from the high plains of Texas. And it was actually growing grapes that really made farming seem really cool and exciting to him as he grew up as a teenager. And he spent years working on the land and farming it with his uncle, Andy Timmins, who was one of the early pioneers of the grape growing industry there in Terry County in the High Plains. Now, he didn't start in the grape industry after college. He actually got him what he calls a big boy job and got his degree in engineering and spent about three years inside a cubicle before the call of the soil brought him back to the vineyard and to start the winery there at Lostraw. Now, his philosophy is that 60 to 70% of winemaking happens right in the vineyard, making high-quality fruit, the non-negotiable in everything they do there at Lost Straw. They are, in addition, deeply committed to things like sustainable farming and focusing in on what are the actual varieties that are truly suited to our Texas climate, rather than just what are the trending things out there. And the name of this winery, Lost Raw, carries really interesting historical significance as well. It was actually named after a peculiar geographical feature there in the high plains, where all of the land typically is very, very flat and there's not a lot of, there's no hills, things like that to speak of, there's not a lot of trees to break things up. But you get these little indentations in the ground from kind of older or lost dry riverbeds and water features that have come through and kind of cause these little divots to come out into the ground that are called draws. And a lot of these draws you don't even notice or realize until the rains come. And because it's so flat and there's nowhere for that water to go, they end up in these draws. Um and that's when they become really visible during those rains. So this particular draw that the vineyard there in Terry County is around was called Lost Draw. It was one that they didn't realize was even there until the rains came. And that's I guess where it got its name. And as I said, the vineyard actually is on either side of that draw. You'll hear more about that in the interview. Now, they were also one of the first wineries, if not the first winery, to plant Pickpool Blanc there in the High Plains, which is a really strong up-and-coming white varietal here in Texas. Does great in this climate and is an excellent wine, probably one of my favorite whites, actually. And that's helped us to put Texas white wines on the map. And it was so enjoyable to sit down and listen to Andrew share his passion, talk about the grit that it takes to farm the land here in Texas, and to see his passion for those amazing wines that are coming forth from that exceptional fruit. So without further ado, let's go hear from Andrew so you can learn about his story and learn about this amazing location, Lostraw. Howdy vine trippers. I'm here at Lostraw, right outside of Johnson City. So this is if you're coming from the Johnson City area, as I am coming from Austin, This is the first location that you will get to right outside on the Wine Road 290. And I'm excited to share with you a little bit about their vineyard in the High Plains, as well as some of the vineyard they have here and their wines and the tasting room. And I'm here with Andrew, and I'm excited to share his story with you. So without further ado, let's turn our attention here to Andrew and hear a little bit about him. So, Andrew, thank you for welcoming me in here at Law Straw. I'd love to hear a little bit about your story. What got you into this crazy world of the wine industry?

Really, what got me into wine is farming. And we, my family, I grew up in the High Plains in Brownfield, Texas, where obviously a lot of uh the grapes in this state are grown. And um, third generation farm kid and my family started growing grapes when I was in high school.

Okay.

And that was uh something that was different and intriguing. Um being a kid that worked uh on the farm growing up, driving tractors, uh, most of that worked revolved around a cotton farm or uh peanuts or corn. And so when we started growing grapes, it was something new and interesting. Uh piqued my interest. It actually uh it made farming cool, I guess.

Uh for uh slightly different than your normal.

Yeah, different. You know, I that that is kind of the Bible belt in the High Plains and and the fact that we were going to be growing something that we turned into alcohol. That was uh somewhat intriguing for a 17-year-old at the time. So um I started working closely with my uncle Andy Timmins, who um was one of the pioneers in that area for um really just the expansion of the grape industry in the Terry County area and worked closely with him for several several years planting um different varieties and learning about different varieties in that climate. And then um I went off to college and got my big boy engineering degree and went and worked as an engineer for about three years before working behind a desk and in a cubicle was uh less enticing to me than uh working outside and just kind of wanted to get back into doing doing something uh in the farming and agricultural realm. And um called them up one day and said, Hey, I I think that we should start a winery where we we focus on uh highlighting grapes that we grow in in Brownfield. At that time we were just selling all of our fruit uh from the vineyard to other wine. Yeah, and so um, you know, I worked in San Antonio, that's where my uh that big boy job was. Um and so my wife and I frequented the uh hill country area to come just check out the new wineries as they were starting to pop up pretty. Um the expansion had started in the hill country. Um so it was fun. It was fun to come taste and and actually go taste wines that were made from grapes that were grown at at Law Straw. Yeah. And uh just kind of got the bug. And I I knew something was cool was happening and something that was very unique um to this area. And we were highlighting an area of Brownfield where I was for 17, 18 years of my life trying as to get away from um as fast as I could. And then now, you know, it was being highlighted as this like great capital of Texas. And uh I found it all pretty fascinating and wanted to be a part of it. And uh I knew that there was probably an opportunity to really um talk about and explore what Texas wine uh could do on a national stage and and try to gain and create some notoriety around the place that that we were growing the grapes. And so uh kind of dove in headfirst and and started learning how to make wine. Um got some really good um advice and and mentorship from some big players in the industry, and um it really kind of just set the stage for being able to open the open the doors to the winery in in Fredericksburg and then obviously expand into what it is today.

You know, as you were talking, I was thinking it's one thing to grow the grapes, and but you know, there's there's I think two big sides that go into a wine. You have the the way the grapes are grown and handled when they're pig, you know, the whole agricultural growing side of it. But then once those grapes get into the cellar and the way the winemaker handles and treats the wine and the grapes and the fruit changes this sort of the way the wine comes out. So I was thinking, I bet it's interesting when you were coming up here from San Antonio to be able to taste what different winemakers may have done with your fruit, but then from your own perspective, now starting your own location, not only having the fruit, but now you getting to do with the fruit, not what the other winemakers want to do with it, but what you want to do with it to really portray it in the way you like.

Yeah, and I think, you know, just to kind of expand on that a bit, I I learned very fast, like just meeting with winemakers that were making wine from our grapes, um, that about 60 to 70, maybe even higher, percent of winemaking happens in the vineyard. And you will never meet a a winemaker that won't tell you that that the higher quality fruit always leads to higher quality wines. And for me, that was like that was kind of an aha moment. And um, I think that that was the moment that it really clicked for me that like wine was truly a product of agriculture. And what a way, what an uh an opportunity to really showcase the hard work that farming, um, that the the hours, the labor, the blood, sweat, and tears that you put in in the vineyard, and how it correlates to a higher quality product that you're actually selling to an end consumer.

Yeah.

And that connection is something that I really wanted to tell in the story of our wines and be able to highlight the farming aspects of wine and talk about how the climate, the weather, the soil impacts what ends up in your glass. And for us, that's kind of always been the root and the core of our story is uh the farming elements. And um at that that moment was when I like kind of had this this dream of like I would love to be able to like just showcase wines that we were producing and even have a vineyard on site to like really connect it for the consumer. Um, when we first opened up, it was in downtown Fredericksburg. So it was a little more challenging to really talk about all of these farming aspects um when you're kind of right in the middle of town.

You're just strictly a tasting room at that point.

Right. And people are just tasting the wines that you're making. Um, but you know, being able to expand to have the opportunity to come out here to Johnson City and have a full, uh, fully operating, you know, vineyard and winery on property really gives us a chance and the opportunity to tell the story of what we're doing, why we are doing it, and why each element from the growing to the winemaking process is important for what ends up, you know, ultimately to the consumer.

It's the literal fruits of your labor pun intended.

Yeah, correct. Yeah, how that goes. I think that's where that pun is originated from. Yeah, really? Yeah.

So let's talk about the vineyard up there that Andy has. So uh about how big is it? How large of a vineyard is that?

Yeah, the original Lost Draw Vineyard is about 60 acres. And uh it started when when we first planted back in 2005, um, we planted five acres and then expanded, added 10 more the next year, and then over the next three years, we expanded it to 60 acres there. And so it's actually even, I mean, that was 20 years ago, over 20 years ago. So we are actually going through the process now at Lost Draw of even taking out some of the original plantings, replanting, okay, um, just cycling through like the vine age, um, vine durability in Texas and especially in the high plains, just because of the weather uh aspects, we see about 20 years being a pretty good number to where you actually start to have to rotate that crop out.

Okay.

Um, and do more planting just to make a sustainable vineyard that's producing enough fruit to actually, you know, balance the the inputs to what you're putting into it. So it's 60 acres. About what what type of varieties did you have planted there? So originally, um, like Temperanio was always like a big staple, and it is uh Tempernillo as a variety has been uh synonymous with the Lost Raw brand from inception. Okay. Um so we have always had multiple, multiple Temper Neillos on on the menu. And um, you know, we're we're using different clones now than we did originally, and uh a lot of that has to do with just durability, weather factors, um, all things that you learn over 20 years of growing grapes. Um, and that is the one thing about you know, farming grapes is it's very generational, like things that we're learning now, like we're passing on to you know future generations. And um, that's what's kind of romantic about it, but also what's kind of uh scary about it is that you know, we've we were doing all this work and we may not even see the best of you know what what will happen um for years and years to come. So it's uh it's fun, it's it's you know, it's intriguing, it's exhausting, it's you know, it's but it's it's great. It's our it's our business, it's our passion. Um but Timpernillo is a big variety there. Uh Viene is another white variety that we have planted at that uh vineyard, and then varieties like Sanjavese, Maldex, Senso, Morved are all planted through that vineyard as well. Um, there's some varieties that um I don't know if you want to talk about them, but we have just we discovered pretty fast and over you know the course of several years weren't the best uh weren't the most suitable.

The trilodera that we talked about.

Yeah, like Pinot Grigio, uh Pinot Noir, um even Sagrantino, some varieties like that we thought might work in the beginning, they didn't. And so a lot of those have been replaced now. Um, some of the new plantings that we have out at that vineyard are Pickpool Blanc, okay, yeah, which is definitely probably our flagship white wine here. Um, and that variety is one that I think is really turning some heads for Texas, not only from our own winery, but just in general across the industry. Like there are a lot of uh really, really good uh pickpool blancs being made from other houses as well. Cool. Yeah, that's a fun one.

That's definitely one of my favorite whites. So I've been excited to over the last few years seeing that really starting to creep up and pop up and start to shine.

Yeah, Andy was actually the first uh farmer to plant Picpool Blanc in in Texas, and he did it at the vineyard that's right that was at his house. Okay in Lubbock. Like a little test vineyard kind of thing. It was it was actually a vineyard that was planted about 10 years after we had gone through the initial 10 years of planting, and so it was done pretty strategically. Okay. Uh, with varieties that were were pretty successful and pretty consistent year to year. But Pickpull was one that had not been tried or really uh thought about for our climate until that planting, and it was wildly successful, very consistent in the vineyard, and it made really, really good wine. So it's planted at uh numerous vineyard sites now all over Texas.

And you do have a vineyard, we can see it in the background here. So what what do you have planted here? And about how big is it?

Yeah, so this vineyard is seven acres. Uh, it's three, three different varieties, and those three varieties are not necessarily varieties that are really successful in the high plains. Uh-huh. Um, what a lot of people don't understand is Texas is a really large state. Um, and so the varieties that work really well here in this climate are not necessarily the same as the ones that work really well in the high plains. Gotcha. Different terrois. So and we're a little bit more limited in the hill country based on uh humidity and and the heat. Um and the soil type does play a little bit of a factor. Uh, but we have to have very heat tolerant varieties in the hill country. Um, our growing season is pretty short because of the heat. And so we have to be able to ripen fruit uh and you know sustain acetate level through a shorter amount of time than what you would have in in a cooler climate. But here on the site we have Petit Verdot, Merlot, and Tanot. Okay. Um the champion is definitely the Tanot in this area. Um and this this vineyard especially. It's it's one that's prolific and it's it's done well for us every year. Okay. Um, interestingly enough, we are actually replanting next year. We're we have started the process of of pulling some of the the petit verdeaux out. Okay. And we're replacing it with a clone of cab, Cabernet Sauvignon, that has been really, really uh successful here in the hill country. So it's always uh it's always a trial and error and something new. And um that's farming, right? It is, and in this area, we're a lot more susceptible to Pierce's disease, which in the high plains we don't have as big of a problem of just because there's not as much vegetation overall. But here in the hill country, there are certain varieties that are more susceptible to that disease. And Petit Verdeau on this site has definitely seen a lot more uh pressure from that. Yeah.

Okay. Well, let's go to this. Well, actually, we'll start with where you started in Fredericksburg. So when did you start your tasting room there in Fredericksburg?

Yeah, so we opened the tasting room in 2014.

Okay.

Um, our first vintage of wine that we actually kept back and made for ourselves was 2012. So we kept that that uh vintage back and and made, we only made 400 cases that first vintage. Sure. Um, but it was Tempernillo and and San Jose were kind of the flagship varieties from that that vintage for us when we opened there in in Fredericksburg. Um that was 2014, so it was 12 years ago. It's a time kind of goes fast.

Hey, it seems like just the other day, right?

It does.

And then you operated there for a little while downtown. And recently, I say recently, again, time flies because now you've been here, I would I would think a few years now, a couple of years.

Yeah, we've actually built this facility.

Yeah, this facility was built in 2021. Okay. Um five years. Or we started in 2021. That's yeah, and that's when like the tasting room, uh, the tasting room was built first. The vineyard actually was planted in 2018.

Okay.

Um that was planted by Bill Blackman um when he was a part of uh William Chris. Okay. And uh this vineyard was planted then, and then the first production that we had off of it was 2022.

Okay.

So that was the first vintage from this site. Yeah. And that time, 2022 is when we kind of made the decision that Lost Straw as a brand could start to move out here in totality. Right. Uh, and built the winery that that same year. In the end of 2022, beginning of 2023, start building this facility that's here now.

Yeah. And you build not only a taster, but you have a full production facility here.

Full production winery. All of our uh barrel storage is here on site. Um, and yeah, we make all of the wines for the brand here, and they're all store here and they're all served here. So it's it's kind of a cool, full circle. You can all the grapes are grown here, the the wines are made here, and then obviously about 90% of them are sold right here off this property. Okay.

Well, is there a story behind the name Lost Straw? Now I get that the winery, you got it because the vineyard was named Lost Straw, but is there a story behind Lost Straw as a name?

Yeah, absolutely. And it's uh it's a question we get a lot. Uh it's it's not a lost gunfight or a card game. That's like a question, you know, in Texas, everybody's trying to tie it to some Texas centric thing. But uh actually, it has to do with uh geography and and actually in the high plains. If you have have you been to the High Plains, you know it's super flat. There's no rivers, no lakes, no trees, no, you know, no hills, no mountains, not a lot of aspect. But uh there are like depressions in the earth uh that were created over like large rain events over a long period of time. And those as Western settlements started back into that area in the early 1900s, um, they were really the only notable features that people could use as points of reference. So when they were moving. So I started that as people started moving west, they started having to name things uh to create maps to give people directions and trails. And one of the first known geographical references in that whole area were naming draws. And a draw is just an arroyo, it's a dry creek bed of depression in the earth that generally will um, you know, basically it'll collect rain and then it'll uh carry it to a larger tributary. Um, and lost draw was one of the most pronounced and notable um draws in the area, so it was named Lost Draw, and where we planted the original vineyard is actually right adjacent to the draw. In fact, we've actually planted on both sides of it. Really? So it does actually create a pretty unique uh soil composition because it's very shallow soil because of all of the runoff over time. And so we get a lot of influence from the draw in the wines. And so when we were naming the vineyard, we just named it Lost Draw Vineyard because of its proximity to the draw right there. And interestingly, there's been other vineyards that are planted on the same draw, on lost draw, just in different areas, but it's kind of cool that it it's followed the same same path. Yeah.

Yeah, and that you're built completely around it with on both sides now.

Yeah, and it's it's useful, you know, even um, we didn't even know it at the time, but like strategically, like planting on the high side of a draw is very good for for cold weather events because the the cold um air always follows the lowest areas. And so we even see it when we have you know spring freezes. Um the areas that are closest to the draw are generally the ones that have the most most issues. Um, so it's kind of a happenstance, but it worked out. Yeah.

Wow, what a lucky coincidence there. That's that's fascinating. And I presume these draws are good. I I'm a Central Texas Hill Country kind of guy, born or raised here. But I assume the draws typically are dry most of the time. And then they they when you get the heavy rains, that's when they're kind of flowing and they have a little bit of water in. Absolutely.

And and in that area, you know, we average, you know, somewhere between 20, 25 inches of rain a year. Yeah. Uh a lot of times it comes in flash flood events. Uh, that is an area of the country that is at the very base of the tornado alley. Okay. And so you have all of the you know, high pressure things coming off of the Rockies, and then you have everything coming low pressure coming from the Gulf. That's what creates a lot of big storms, thunderstorms in that area. And so sometimes those rain events, you know, we may get 20 inches of rainy year, we might get five in one day. Right. So water's got to go somewhere, so it finds its natural um low areas to flow through, and then, you know, flowing water always creates more and more um pathways, and um, that's they're dry most of the year, but they do some of them will carry water um during large rain events. And what I would think uh That's actually how the lost draw was named. It was actually there was a part of the draw that became very, very flat and almost like not visible uh for like miles, and there was a group of settlers that actually settled in one of the flat areas that they thought was not, and then a huge storm came and washed their settlement out. So they named the draw Lost Draw because it was lost, and you only see it when it was found during that rain event. Yeah.

Interesting.

And that's how it actually got its name.

Well, I would think from, and again, I'm no farmer, but from what a little I know of agriculture, I would think that would be also beneficial to the vineyard because instead of that, those heavy, heavy rains maybe filling the soil and maybe soaking the roots a little too much, it would direct it, it would allow for good drainage to allow a lot of that heavy rain to move on down the draw and kind of keep everything.

Yeah, that's sandy loam over like a pretty uh deep limestone bed in that area. So drainage has never really been an issue in that area. Um, there are some sandier spots that will hold water a little bit longer, but uh that's what one of the reasons that the High Plains is such a great growing area for grapes is the drainage of the soil is really good there.

Interesting. So uh this may be a silly question because we just talked about the vineyard there, we talked about your vineyard here, but are are you solely a state-style wine? Like everything comes only from Lost Raw, or do you source from other locations here and there?

Yeah, we have actually in the last we've we've sourced grapes from all over the state. Like we we're actually just released a wine that was from Dell Valley Vineyards, which is way out at the base of the Guadalupe Mountains. Make some great fruit out there close to close to El Paso. But they had Timper Neo, and we wanted to try, you know, a different soil type uh to make the same variety. Um but primarily all of our grapes come from Lost Straw in the High Plains, from the Lost Straw Vineyard or our estate here. Okay. And that direction um has kind of taken place over the last two years. But uh as of the 2025 harvest and then going into this harvest, about 90% of the fruit that that you would taste in our from our brand here would be from either our vineyard there in the high plains or the vineyard here.

Okay. Well, and tell me a little bit about your production facilities that you have here on site.

So you process everything here. We process everything here. Um, we do a lot of machine harvested uh fruit from the High Plains, um, and then a lot of hand-harvested stuff from this estate vineyard here. So we process fruit different ways. Um, that's all pretty strategic too, based on variety and kind of the program that we're looking to uh achieve with the wine. Sure. But um yeah, we'll fully, fully uh full production winery here. Uh we ferment uh all of our fruit in most of our reds are are uh fermented in upright foodras, which is a really classic uh fermentation fermentation style. Uh and then we ferment all of our white grapes and white juice in either concrete or stainless. Okay. So pretty classic winemaking. Um, I would call it closer to old world than new world, but you know, it kind of weaves in and out based on the style and and what we're trying to achieve. But um we're pretty low intervention. That's that's the main focus that we've always had as a winemaking team, is we really want the soil to speak itself into the wines. And we want as we call it our main ingredient. Uh uh, if you're here on property, you see all the rocks that are stacked up around the property. Those actually came from the vineyard. So that's alluvial limestone and sandstone and uh granite kind of all packed together just because of where we're situated here in the hill country. Those three different soil compositions have kind of been melded together over time. And it makes for a very unique uh um opportunity to showcase the vineyard soil type here. But we uh don't, you know, don't add a whole lot in into it. We ferment the grapes that come in and uh age them um in mostly neutral wood.

Okay.

And then taste frequently and and filter and bottle when it's ready. Yeah. Or when we feel like it's ready.

So do with your fruit that you have machine harvested there at the vineyard, do you have to bring that down in trucks? Do you bring in whole clusters? Do you bring just do you press it there and then just bring the juice down?

Or how does that work? A little bit of both on those. So uh one of our really good winery partners and and where we where I honestly learned how to make wine and and pick the guy's brain still is Kim McPherson. Oh, yeah. Uh they were buying a lot of grapes from us originally before we were a winery. And when we started wanting to make wine, like we used their facility to make it. And that's where I learned everything I know about winemaking, not everything, but the initially um and the process of it, um, how to do it, what not to do. And you know, everybody's got their own style and method, but uh at the time, I like really, really enjoyed the styles um that they had. So uh a lot of what we do today is still based on some of those methods, but uh we still use utilize their facility to press out our whites and roses. Okay. Uh just because we are on the skin night long. We are uh from a white and rose standpoint, we like our wines lean, dry, and crisp. Okay. Um and so getting them off skins as soon as possible is has been a method that works for us. But so we press all of the whites and roses, 90% of whites and roses in the in the high plains and then bring the juice down after it's been you know cold settled. Right. Um, and then all of the reds, they come down uh either machine or hand harvested. They come down on a refrigerated truck uh in picking bins, and then as soon as they arrive, they're uh processed into the the foodras and we start fermentation and rock and roll. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I can't think of uh many people better to learn the the craft from than Kim. He's uh he definitely knows what he's doing, been doing this for quite some time.

Yeah, and we we do some different things, uh especially like on the red winemaking style um than what they do, and not that they're right or we're wrong or anything. It's just different styles. Um, but you kind of evolve, I think. That's the other cool thing about winemaking is you know, you you learn different tactics and techniques and you learn from your peers and you give them advice, and and and that's what's been cool about the industry uh over the last 10 years is I feel like the quality of wine has really increased just across the board. Um, and a lot of it's just because of knowledge. Um, you know, when everybody was first starting 20 years ago, wasn't a lot of experts in the field that were like doing things. So now that everybody's, you know, 20 years later, they've had their own experience, so they've shared experiences. Um, and we've been able to really learn from each other on what varieties uh to grow, what clones to use for those varieties, how to process certain fruit, how to how to even like cold stabilize certain fruit. Like, so it's just little things here and there that have uh, you know, made the industry better, which has been been fun to be a part of.

Are you winemaker here or do you have a wine a full-time winemaker?

Or yeah, our our full-time winemaker is Brad Buckaloo. Okay. Um, I was the original winemaker. Um, but as we started to grow in production, uh Brad started with us in 2017.

Okay.

So he's been uh a part of this team, and he's actually a part owner of Lost Raw now. Okay, good. Um so he's been making wine eight years fully, um, um, as a part of the brand. So uh he's definitely responsible for the quality continuing to increase uh because that guy is just always striving to figure out a way to make a better wine. So it's it's been fun to really utilize each other um to just bounce ideas off of and like continuously push the bar to make or to make a better wine. And I think that's what keeps you going in this industry is that you feel like you had never made your best wine. So you just keep pushing the bar, trying different stuff and new techniques, new methods, and every year's a new year. Every year's every year's a new year, yeah.

Do you what are some of your favor, since you have made wine, what are some of your favorite varieties to work with?

Uh definitely San Juve from a red red standpoint. And a lot of that, like, I get this question a lot. Like, what is your favorite wine? Right. And for me, um I I come from it from a farming aspect, like um and sustainable farming. That's that's one thing that we have really, really strive to do in both the high plains and here is to become more sustainable in the vineyard. Um, and what that means is that we want to be able to grow grapes efficiently and consistently with the least amount of impact to the natural like growing state. And so San Juese, especially in the High Plains, has been a very prolific grape for us uh year in and year out. And I enjoy the wines, the style of those wines. I generally lean toward uh white wines uh on just a personal consumption level. Uh that's for a couple of reasons. Um, I feel like if you go to a winery and you taste through a menu of their wines, if their white wines are really good, I feel like it it's a sign of a really good winemaker. Okay. Um, because it's a lot harder to hide flaws in white wine than it is into red wine. Okay. And so I generally lean toward lighter and uh crisper, more acid-driven wines. Um, and San Jose is kind of fun because you can kind of push that style. You can push lean, light, and acid-driven for a red variety that still has like tannin um structure that that makes it um gives it the ability to be paired with like uh a lot of protein or or like you know, meat, and but you can also like dress it down and you can have it with a very casual meal as well. So that's variety that I really like. Uh Temper Neo, obviously, and pickpool that we talked about earlier, um, varieties that I've had a blast just trying to refine and make better every single year. And and some of these new varieties have been fun. Like we we uh for three straight years, we have produced a single varietal Nero de Havla, which is pretty wild in the in the wine world to have just a variety on its own of that that particular grape. Um, but it's been fantastic and the wine's been good. And so we're you know, in the cellar, it's fun to go taste through stuff um and just see from year to year what really stands out and stuff. When it becomes very consistent over like three years, it kind of makes you like think that that's that's a variety that's got staying power here in here in Texas. And so there are some other varieties that you may make an amazing uh dolcetto one year, but then man, for two or three years, it was not as good. And so for us from a decision-making standpoint, especially when we're replanting in the vineyard and we're making plans to you know grow programs, uh our our customers want consistency. So if they come in and they have a an amazing experience with a wine, and then we don't have it available for two or three years, there's a disconnect there. And so one of our big goals has become finding sustainable varieties that we can consist consistently make very high quality wines out of. Oh well, that makes a lot of sense, yeah, from the farming perspective as well as from the Willie Makes perspective. So and you know, Texas has been tough, like uh everybody's tried to figure out like what's growing, what grows well here. And I think for a long time, people in the industry were really just trying to like have something different that no one's ever had. So it's like, oh, we got a barbera, or we have like a you know, Simeon or something that like no one's had in Texas before. So then we had this this like overproduction of just too many varieties, yeah. And I think it created a little bit of confusion for the consultation. To live in the market a little bit, yeah. And and it just it didn't give us like a unified uh consistency across tasting rooms for like, well, this is actually what really can be grown on a consistent basis in this area, and I think we're overcoming that in a lot of ways, and I think just time helps with that and just consistent production.

Um, so and and the industry is maturing and um really growing, so much so winning major awards everywhere. I think that's really helping us to kind of come into our own a little bit more.

Yeah, and and I think that's the other thing is uh like just quality from a standpoint of like winemaking. Um I think the consumer and even sometimes as winemakers and and just teams, uh, we we really are trying so hard to like showcase like a varietal um when really quality is the goal. Like it we're not trying to just like hey, we have a Tempernillo on the menu and people will taste a Tempernillo from here and they're like, Oh, well, Tempernillo, I love Tempernillo. It's like, well, you had a quality Tempernillo at this place. If you go down the road, their their variety that is most quality may be a different variety, but quality is the goal, and it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to a specific variety for this area. Yeah, yeah.

I got you.

So what would you say is the single, as a grower, especially, and now also with a winery, here in Texas, what would you say is the single biggest challenge and the single biggest reward of growing grapes and making wine in Texas?

Challenge is a tough one because it changes. Uh right now, I think our biggest challenge is getting Texans to discover Texas wine and make the choice to drink Texas wine, embrace it over something else that they have had in the past or that they've just like grown to love over time. And, you know, there's still a large percent of Texas consumers, and Texas is is one of the largest wine consuming states in the country, but a very, very small percentage of the wine that is consumed by Texans is actually Texas wine. Yeah. And so the biggest challenge in the last two years is has been from a growing standpoint. There's been a lot of grapes that have were planted in the high plains in preparation for this like growing industry in the wine category in Texas. And it's really flattened and maybe even declined a little bit from a consumption standpoint. And so there's a lot of growers that are struggling to sell their fruit or to really want to continue to make the investment to make high quality fruit because they're just so cash strapped uh because they haven't sold all of their fruit from a year, year to year. And um, it's created a little bit of a gap in the industry, but you know, that's a pendulum I think swings back and forth, uh, just like every industry. But right now, I'd say our biggest challenge is just getting Texans to drink Texas wine. Yeah. What about the single biggest reward? Uh the biggest reward? Oh, that's tough. For for the brand or for the industry?

Just you define however you'd like. Just growing growing grapes and making wine in Texas. What's the most rewarding thing of that?

I think the most rewarding thing is that we've been able to sustain this business and meet uh tens of thousands of people through sharing our agricultural product with them uh on a consumer level. And every single day we see a new consumer, and it still blows my mind that you know, like people will come in or they've never heard of our brand or never heard that Texas wine is good, and they've been living in Austin for 20 years. And I'm like, what rock have you been living under? But it is rewarding when uh people come in from right in our backyard in Austin or from California, and they have heard about the Texas wine industry, and they're they're fascinated and amazed uh at the quality and the things that we're doing here. So um I think that is the biggest reward. And and kind of like to go on top of that, I think it's rewarding, like for me personally, that we've been able to provide uh such an amazing like job and opportunity for so many people in this area industry for the industry. And if you look, you know, 20 years ago, I I don't have the exact number, but there are thousands of people that just in this area uh that have a job related to the wine industry. And that wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for a lot of the work that happened for the last 20 years to grow the industry. And I think it's also pretty w rewarding that I think we have a ton of room for growth and expansion in that realm. And um the quality continues to go up. Um, if consumption will continue to grow, even from Texas consumers, um then I think that the industry is like in a in a pretty positive place.

What would you say is a unique characteristic or tradition of your winery that you think really represents the spirit of Texas and Texas winemaking?

Oh, that one's easy. I think our hospitality aspect, um, I mean, we hear it every day. Like our wine's good. I know our wine's good. Um, I'm not gonna say it's the best, maybe it is the best, but I know it's good. And I know it's a reason that people come here, but I know that we have club members that have been with us for 10 years or just consumers that continually come to our property um because of our people. And they're consistent with hospitality. They're we greet people with wine, we greet them with a hello, and I think that makes us unique. Um because we we truly feel like wine is just a tool for fellowship, yeah, and a tool for uh getting people together, um, just enjoyment. Like it gives you a reason and an opportunity to connect with someone you haven't seen in a long time or to connect with someone that you see every day. And I think that's what's both rewarding and something that we offer um on a really high level that's consistent. And we're pretty proud of that.

Well, just to validate that, I remember when you first opened here, I wanted to get out to see the tasting room and then I think you might have it might have been in the first week or two of when you first opened. And I remember coming in and walking along the sidewalk up. And before I could, I was still on the sidewalk coming up. I was already had somebody there putting a glass of wine in my hand. And I was like, wow, this is really welcoming and really exciting. Yeah. So I I experienced that from day one of your location here. So that that's a really exciting thing for people to come experience.

Yeah, I would agree. I I think that our people they're they're consistent. They love what they do, they love sharing this passion. Um, everyone on our team, I feel like, feel like is a part of our brand story. And they're connected to it. They're connected to the brand and showcasing what we do. And not even for like our own benefit, but we want people that spend the time to come out to the hill country to taste wine. We want them to enjoy it and have a have an amazing time and uh come back.

Well, tell me a little bit about what are some of those great wines that you're serving to customers? What are some of the wines that you provide? We've talked about Timper Neal a little bit, but what are some of the wines that you offer?

Yeah, so Pickpool Blanc is a is a staple. Um uh we've actually just started releasing some of these estate wines and they're phenomenal. The um the the series of wine for our estate wines um has to do with the ground. So the initial release was higher ground, uh, and then we have common ground and sacred ground. Those are three different wines that all come from the estate. Okay. And the common ground was just released uh at our last release event. Uh, and it's a it's a Tanat Rose, but it is like so intriguing and so interesting. Um, and it's just downright delicious. It's it's hard to not have a second glass after you've had one. Um, but that's a wine that we're showcasing right now that's been phenomenal. Uh there's a couvet that's a blend. It's called the Uplift Cuvée.

Okay.

Uh it's made from three varieties at the Uplift Vineyard, just right down the road here from the Hill Country. Uh that wine scored really high with James Suckling and Decanter, and it is a phenomenal wine to try as well. Um, and then the San Juve and Tempernillo that we talked about uh previously, those are wines that are frequently on the menu. And if you come in and you see, oh, I've had Tempernillo or San Juvezé, check the vineyard because we release wines from different vineyards in different locations all the time. So uh that's something that's pretty Mark, our tastinger manager does a really good job of switching that menu out so that you can come try something and do a tasting uh one day, and then a month later it's something there, it's a completely different set of wines.

So a nice little variety going on to keep things fresh and exciting. Exactly.

Okay. Well, the location here itself, do you host any kind of events or amenities or things out here that people want might want to come to come to?

Yeah, I will say like one of the really cool things that I want to promote is the room that we're sitting in. This used to be an open porch. Okay. Um, it's actually connected to our production facility. So right behind here uh is where our barrel hall is, and then the winery is on the other side, and it's you know, right in front of the vineyard. Beautiful view. Um, but if you book a tasting uh online, you go to our website and you book a weekend experience. Okay. Um, it is a tasting, but it's up here on the deck, and it includes, you know, a tour of the barrel hall and uh a guided tasting through multiple lines with some small food bites as well. Okay. So it's uh something that we just started once this got enclosed and air conditioned. So you can come in the middle of the summer and it's a brisk, you know, 68 degrees in here. It feels nice. Right, right. Um, but it does give us the opportunity with the proximity to the vineyard to go showcase what's going on uh during the tasting. You get to go out and look at what's going on in the vineyard.

Um field trip.

Yeah, and then come back and it really creates that connection of like, wow, this is what I'm tasting, and this is the vineyard that these grapes came from. So um pretty, pretty unique experience for sure.

Uh any other kinds of like you do live music or things like that.

Yes. So simultaneously running. If you booked a tasting or an experience, you would have that experience up here. Uh, but we also have a really nice courtyard under a big grove of uh oak trees that have we have music going every uh Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. Um and so if you want a more casual experience, you can actually do a flight of wine where you can just sit and enjoy at your own pace while you listen to music. And um that place, uh the courtyard is a really big open field next to it. So it's dog friendly, kid friendly. We really encourage people to come out and enjoy with their family. Uh we want you to come and hang out and stay a while. So that's kind of the the two highlights is is those these two areas for sure.

That's a it's a very beautiful area with all of the oaks and everything, and the you got lights there in the trees and everything. It's just a really pretty outdoor area to hang out in, I think. And you walk right through it as you're coming into the entrance to the tasting room.

Yeah, we did that strategically. We want you to kind of get a feel for the property and and how how uh special the little space is. But um Yeah, it kind of gives you uh an opportunity to do kind of pick your pick your journey on on the wine wine day.

Well, I'll tell you what, I I'm sure at this point my my watchers and my listeners are getting really excited to come visit. So let's talk about the details of what a tasting might look like if they come to the property. And so when they come in, do you offer a single tasting of wines? You talked about the flights a moment ago, but do the does the customer pick the wines they taste, or is it a set flight of tasting? What does that look like?

Yeah, it's always set. Uh the flight is a different uh group of wines than than what happens with the uh tasting experience. Okay. Um the tasting experience generally is booked online ahead of time. Um if there is availability and available time slots when you for walk-ups, we do accommodate that. Okay. Uh, but I highly recommend people book them if especially if they're on a like a time crunch. Sure. And if they're in a, you know, if they're trying to hit two or three wineries in a day and they're trying to plan out their trip, do it ahead of time so that you can kind of get your time slot um, you know, scheduled. Yeah. Yeah. But they're booked every hour. So every hour on the hour. They take about an hour and a half to do the experience. But like I said, it always includes uh a little walk to the vineyard or uh down to the to the cellar to see the winemaking process. Um that that experience is pretty educational. So it's uh held with a single ambassador that uh one of our wine educating ambassadors that really talks through the wine, the winemaking process, and very, very knowledgeable folks that can answer any questions you have about the winery or that. So, or if you're looking for a more casual experience, you can come hang out and uh still taste through the wines uh with the flight in the courtyard or in the tasting room.

Okay.

Um, and then that one's a little more laid back and and not as regimented on like booking on ahead of time or on the schedule. Do they need reservations for that or can they just walk in? That's a that's a walk-up accommodated um experience. And then, like I said, if anybody that walks up and if if the space is available and the time slot has available time slots, we generally try to get people upgraded to that, to this, to this experience if it's available. And what are the costs on those two? So during the week, uh the weekday experience is $30 and on the weekend it's $40. Okay. And that's the the elevated one in the yes, the elevated one that includes the tour and the yeah and the bites and all that's $40.

Wow.

Yeah, it's a steal.

Yeah, it is. And the the regular tasting, the just buckle flight, casual?

$25.

$25.

Yeah. So if you do the tasting, if you go to the courtyard and you just want to taste through uh six wines, the flight's uh $25.

Okay. And we know that you're family friendly and dog friendly and pet friendly, you talked about that a moment ago. What about your operating hours? When do you open and what times?

Yeah, so Friday through Sunday, we are 10 to 6. Okay. So we're open at 10. The first uh bookable tasting on Friday, Saturday, Sunday is at 11. Okay. But we are open at 10. Right. And then on the weekends it's 12 to 6. 12 to 6.

Okay, excellent. Do you we talked about with the weekday experience or the weekend experience here, the food options and things like that. But in your standard tasting room, do you have any kind of food options or can people bring their own food in?

Yeah, absolutely. We encourage people to bring uh food in, but we also have uh charcuterie, uh a wide array of meats, cheeses, nuts. Uh there's like some jams, um, some dried fruit, some pickled uh options. Okay. Um so yeah, just charcuterie, general charcuterie, but it's uh it's pretty good.

Okay. What about group sizes? Do you have any maximum group sizes or anything like that?

So yeah, on the the bookable experience here is up to eight people. Okay. Um, and that would be like eight uh folks with like one dedicated um line ambassador. Um in the courtyard, we really don't limit group sizes. Okay. Um, we recommend that if you have a group uh larger than 10 that you let us know so that we can just accommodate seating and things like that. And even on the website, it has like a group uh tasting reservation option. Okay. So you can actually go click on there, and then that way we can actually accommodate it and let you know, hey, would you like charcuterie added or do you want to have a tour added? Those kinds of things.

So we tailor that experience.

Correct. Okay, that makes sense. But all of that is available on the website and it it kind of walks through the different options of what to do there.

What are your busier and slower times or seasons? What's the best time to come visit?

Uh the summer is a really good time, especially because we have uh a lot of air conditioned space now. Uh-huh. Um, our barrel hall is actually open for seating on the weekends. Oh, okay. So you can actually sit uh amongst the barrels and and uh enjoy a glass of wine or a bottle of wine with a group of people there. Yeah. Uh this experience is obviously um enclosed and in air conditioning. So it's not as busy in the summer. So uh once we start getting into fall, we do start our numbers really do start to increase. Um and during the week, uh generally we're pretty, I wouldn't say like slow, but we're pretty steady. But but it's uh if you're depends on what you're looking for. We can we can accommodate really right now, the way it's set up, and that's why we built this space and enclosed this space so that even on the weekend, when we know we have higher higher volumes of people wanting to do tastings, we can still keep that experience pretty intimate and pretty uh pretty seamless. Yeah.

So I I know the answer to this question because you mentioned it a moment ago, but let's just address it. So wine club. I know you have a wine club, you mentioned it a moment ago. So tell me a little bit about some of the details of your wine club.

Yeah, we actually have two options now, okay, uh, which is kind of cool. But our our traditional club is called our foundation club. Um, and that's where we get seat we have seasonal releases. Okay. Um, so you can sign up uh to get either four or six or twelve. It's pretty traditional on the on the foundation club. But the one unique thing about our wine club is that monthly you get 10 tastings and those are shareable. And what's really cool uh about our club is you don't actually even have to be, if you're a club member, you don't have to be on site to gift or share your tasting with someone. So if you live in Dallas, but you have some friends that are visiting the Hill Country, if you're a member, you can use one of your shareable tastings and give it to someone to come and experience the property, and it's all complimentary for them as a part of your membership.

Wow.

So that is one cool thing about the membership that that a lot of wine club members have taken advantage of and they get to kind of like show off their wine a little and they don't have to be here. They can say, like, hey, we're not in town, but we have some friends, Susie and Bob are coming to coming to taste wine in the hill country, and and they can book a reservation, a member tasting on on their behalf. Yeah. Um, and then we we rolled out a a new uh subscription club this year, which is also really cool. Um, and it's just a monthly charge, and it actually does not include wine. Uh, you know, I know a lot of people are members of a lot of wineries, um, and so they have this big surplus of wines at at different times during the year. But what's cool about the subscription club is you get all of the same benefits of the traditional wine club. Okay. You just pay a monthly fee, which is pretty nominal. It's $35. Okay. You still get to share the tastings, you still get to have the the tastings uh when you're on property, right? And you still get a discount on all of your wine purchases, but you don't get the wine releases unless you you choose to buy them. Right. So it's kind of a kind of a new cool thing that we've actually had a lot of uh a lot of lot of interest and a lot of people that have have signed up to do that one just because it's a little bit of a unique they can still come and enjoy the wine to feel a part of it. Yeah, like if you lived in Austin, but you'd yeah, you don't want to get, you know, four bottles of wine two or three times a year or four times a year, you can still come out here and enjoy the property and you know, you still get a discount on the purchases that you you make. You just get to choose when when you make them and when they are.

Okay. Well, what about I've got viewers and listeners all over the state, some all over the country. If people can't get here to this particular location, but they really want to try and drink some lost trail wines, do you do any kind of distribution or do you sell on your website or yeah, we we do uh distribution.

We we have wholesale all across the state. Um, it's a lot more limited portfolio, but the wines I can I can tell you they're really good. Actually, our our wine that we have that we have sold the most of in distribution is called the Royal Rojo.

Okay.

You can find that wine primarily at HEB, uh, but it just scored 94 points from Decanter. So, and that's a that's a wine that's uh that you can get at HEB that is lost draw. So uh we're we have 181 different points of distribution for H H E B. Um, that's our primary um chain retail account. So that uh that's the best place to find it, I would say at the moment.

Yeah. And for people outside of the Texas area where we have we're lucky to have HUBs, can they order on your website or anything like that?

100%. We we ship to 42 different states. Okay. Um, the eight states, you know who you are. The only reason we don't ship there is because it it is not legal for us to ship there. Um, but you can order wine online and it gets shipped out. We even ship during the summer. We cold cold pack the wines uh to make sure they get to you in the state that we want them. Fresh state arrive to you. Yeah, but yeah, you can order those wines and we're frequently doing specials online.

Okay.

Um, so even if you're just interested in the brand or what we're doing and following us, like we don't inundate people with emails. All of our emails are pretty fun and informational, but it is a good way to follow the different things that are happening. Um, we frequently do events, we have a paella uh event that comes that's coming up July 25th, which is one of our kind of signature events out here on property, and we cook paella in all different styles. And uh yeah, we even have a vegan, uh all kinds of paella. Shellfish free one, like but for the folks that like seafood, there's one that has seafood in it. So um, that's our big signature event that's coming up in the near future. So that all the information for that is on the website as well.

Okay, cool. So we talked a little bit about the the foundation here that you built and starting there at Fredericksburg and then moving to this property and in the grave vineyard and the tasting room and the expansions here. Do you have plans for future growth or ideas or things you'd like to see down the road?

Well, one thing we didn't touch on a whole lot, but I think it's important to note is that we are opening another location back in Fredericksburg. Thank you, yes. And um, that should be open next month. Okay. Oh, which would be July, uh crossing our fingers. That's been the that's been the goal. Um, but that place is, you know, we we started the the operation there in Fredericksburg and we had a ton of local support. And um, not only from just local people that love to go enjoy wine there, but we had a lot of people that were sad to see us leave because they came in to visit Fredericksburg, and that was their place to go. Yeah. And now you're at the other end of the wine room. We've kind of gotten that feedback over the last few years and had a great opportunity with an amazing space to uh be able to kind of bring that back to our fans. And um, I'm excited to kind of launch that area. And it will not be a place that um is like a traditional tasting room. Okay. Um our plan is to not set up like tastings like hour-long tastings like we do out here. Sure. Uh, but we want to really give, especially our members and our biggest fans, a place to go and enjoy our wine in town um in a great setting and an easy place to get to.

So buy the glass, buy the bottle.

Yeah, buy the glass, buy the bottle, and you know, have a couple of surprises for people to to come have. We're we're probably gonna have a little bit more uh food options at that location as well.

Cool. That'll be really neat to to bookend the both ends of the wine road. So you've got, you know, what we think of the wine road 290, they're between Johnson City and Fredericksburg, and now have it since you're the furthest one down this way on the wine road. Well, not including you got some now in Johnson City, but it kind of have both those bookends is really neat. So all right. Well, there are a lot of great places in Texas that people can go to drink wine. So, in your opinion, what would you say really sets Lostraw apart? That my viewers would have to move that up their list and say, okay, now I gotta get there and check it out.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you come to our place at Lost Straw, you will be enjoying uh wines that were farmed and something that our hands have been involved in from the growing stage all the way through the production process. Uh, we don't bring wine or grapes into the cellar that we did not have a hand in farming. And that is pretty unique for um for this area. And you'll you'll know that the true farming elements of those wines are are taken into account for every single bottle that we make. And I think that for the quality, like bang for your buck, I I feel like our wines are as comparable to anyone in the in the entire industry and maybe even the state. Okay. Um, just the quality related to price. Right.

Well, all right. Andrew's commitment to hands-on farming from the ground all the way to the bottle truly sets Lost Draw apart as a pure expression of Texas agriculture. Now, you can go online to visit their website at www.lostdraw.com and find all the details you need to plan your next visit. They offer some really great and exciting opportunities to when you come visit there, like those bookable weekend experiences with the barrel hall tours that Andrew mentioned. And don't forget that really interesting, flexible subscription club that you can join and get access to all of the features of the wine club without having to pile up bottles nonstop in your house, especially if you're members of other wine clubs. And signature events like that paella night that Andrew also talked about in the interview. There's a lot going on and lots to love there at Lost Straw. And don't forget, when you go see them, make sure you tell them you heard about them on this podcast, Texas Undervine. All right, now for that reveal that I promised. It's time to talk about my wine wanderer bottle for this particular episode. And it is the 2023 Sinso from Lost Straw. And this is from their High Plains Grapes. This is a great bottle. Really enjoyed this beautiful red wine. A lot of times can be used to make rose. It's typically used a lot of times as a blending grape. It's not as often that you find it as a single varietal, like this particular bottle. Now, I picked this particular bottle because it is a perfect example of their low intervention style. It's lean, crisp, and just beautifully structured. It really allows those high plane soils and that terroir to speak for itself. And it's an excellent choice for anyone looking to taste the elegance of Texas Reds. Make sure you get some of this when you go see them there at Lost Straw. Alright, well, it's time for me to pull up the steaks here, and I want to head on into Fredericksburg and check out that new tasting room that Lostra has opened up there that Andrew talked a little bit about in the interview. And while I'm on the road, I'm going to visit some other great sites to bring to you in future episodes as well. Alright, now if you're enjoying the show, make sure to take a look at our Patreon. It is a place for you to contribute just a little bit per month to the podcast, and it helps me to cover all the expenses that I have, from hosting the podcast to the travel expenses to go to all these great places and bring these incredible stories up to you. It's easy to join. Just check out the Patreon link on the Texasundervine website at Texasundervine.com and you can find multiple contributing levels there where you're going to get a little bit of extras that not everyone gets who just listens to the podcast for free. And don't forget, you can also find us on YouTube for the full video experience. And make sure that you like, follow, and subscribe there so that you don't miss any of the episodes as they come out. And also, for those on YouTube, go down to the comment section. I want to know, Andrew talked about the challenge of getting people, especially in Texas, to be aware of and to drink Texas wine. So what was the first Texas wine you ever had that made you a believer? Let us know down below in the comments. And with that, my time is up. So don't forget, subscribe to the podcast and follow my socials to be notified anytime a new episode is released. And until then, happy trails and bottoms up, y'all. Thanks for listening to Texas Undervine. We strive to provide you with the best information about wine businesses all over Texas. Be sure to check out our website at Texasundervine.com and follow us on our socials at Texas Undervine to stay up on all the upcoming episodes. Please email us with any suggestions or feedback. Also, contact us if you're interested in donating, sponsoring, or advertising on the podcast just to help us cover our expenses and bring even more great info to you in future episodes. Above all, travel safely and most especially, drink responsibly.