Kiepersol (East Texas)

At Twelve Fires Winery and Vineyard, every pour comes with a story. Their team serves up incredible Texas wine alongside a warm hill country welcome where rustic charm meets refined taste. It's a place where behind every glass there's a story worth sipping. Stop by Friday through Sunday, noon to six PM, or check out their monthly events at twelvefires.com. Click wine, then events. See y'all soon.

And what he said in this moment, and that that's how this wine got its name, was he goes, I got my wish. Um, so it is barrel number 33, Texas Wish.

An exploratory podcast to scout out the best that Texas wine country has to offer. I'm your wine guide, Scott, and I'm here to lead you on an auditory expedition to the vineyards and wineries across the great Lone Star State. Each episode will cover a different vineyard, winery, or wine-related business operating in Texas. You'll hear interviews, descriptions, and details about each location that will excite you to visit and experience it for yourself. Ready to plan a wine tour? Use these episodes to choose the most interesting spots for you and your friends to check out. Most of all, enjoy hearing about the rapidly growing wine industry in the state and what makes our wines and wineries the best. Had some major computer glitches and problems, and I want to go into all the details of all of that that uh plagued my production workflow. But I've restored most everything and I'm back in action, and we're here with you this week to bring you a great episode, episode 85. And for this episode, I'm really excited, which was one of the reasons I was kind of bummed that this happened when it did, because now I get to share with you a great and fun leg of my wine journey that I took this summer when I ventured up to East Texas to visit a few fun wineries, more in the Piney Woods area. Now, before we get into the actual location for today's episode, I did want to share with you about a few events coming up for Texas Wine. One of those is the Texas Wine Jam. Such a great event. It's going to be happening on October 17th. And if you haven't gotten your tickets yet, you really need to. I will not be able to go this year, sadly, because I have a previous commitment. But I know that you will have so much fun if you go yourself. I've been to it in the past and it's always such a fun event. Great music, great wines. Daniel really does a great job putting that together there with Venovium. So go check out the Texas wine jam there. It's going to be October 17th. Now, I'm also excited about the next weekend is the Fredericksburg Food and Wine Festival. And for this year, I will not be a media sponsor, but I'm going to get to go to the grand tasting event on Saturday and just get to enjoy myself this year. So I'm really looking forward to walking around and tasting a lot of great wines and drinks and eating some great food and just getting to be a participant walking around and enjoying the festival rather than running around trying to find people I'm interviewing. So it should be a really fun event. If you see me there, I'll be in my normal purple gear. Say hi, I'd love to meet you and we'll share a glass of wine, cheers together a little bit. And if you haven't gotten your tickets yet, those are going fast as well. So make sure you go out to the Fredericksburg Food and Wine Festival and get your tickets now. And I'll be at the Grand Tasting event there on October 24th. All right. Now, before I get into today's episode, I did want to let you know I do have a very special bottle for my wine wanderer library for this particular episode that's a slightly different than what I would normally pick. And so I'm really excited about sharing that with you, and it's got some fun things to it. So I'm going to share that with you though later in the episode. I'm going to keep that a little close to the vest and bring that out towards the end of the episode. Now, today we are traveling up into the East Texas area, gonna go behind the pine curtain, as it's called, to visit a winery just south of Tyler, Texas called Keepersall. Now, I've been wanting to go visit this winery for some time now. I have actually served as a wine judge with Kelly Doherty from Keepersall, and I have always wanted to get up there and visit. And so we finally got the opportunity this summer to go visit Keepersall. And so it was a great experience. And while I was there, Kelly was able to get me set up to talk and visit with Marnell Durette, who is one of the co-owners and the winemaker for this amazing wine destination. Now, this winery is truly got a family foundation. So it was started 27 years ago, and you'll get to hear more of the story in the interview by Marnell and her sister and their father, Pierre. And this family actually migrated here to the United States from South Africa back in 1984. And so they bring a special little twist and heritage to the Texas wine scene. And from day one, they really made it a point with this wine destination to really have no debt. They wanted to bootstrap everything, every expansion, everything they did. They didn't want to take debt and try to pay that back. They have raised the money and put it together and saved to build each piece as they've built this incredible wine estate. And it's something that Marnell in the interview credits to be a huge piece of their success. Whereas during the pandemic, when everyone was tightening their belts, Keepersaw was doing great because they didn't have debt. They just kept on adding and saving and putting things forward. And it's a strategy they keep doing to this day. Now, I don't want to give away too much, but when they first started this idea to make this incredible wine destination, Marnell was talking to her father, who was really into farming, and she wanted to plant peaches. But her father, in his wisdom, was able to actually turn things around, give her a little bit of business knowledge, and talk about how you could easily take with wine grapes something that's a perishable crop and turn it into something that's non-perishable to be able to sell and make great money with. And so Keepersaw was born. And Marnell decided to practice her winemaking skills and build her chops a little bit out in Napa Valley. And she was a seller at out there and worked with some places out there to really refine her craft and learn the skill of winemaking right there at the ground level. And again, I don't want to take too much away from the interview, but there's a great story you're gonna hear from Marnell about how this winery got its name. Now, I'm not gonna give away the details, but it is a funny story that they've actually turned into a prayer for the winery itself. And so there's no Mr. or Mrs. Keepersall involved in this whole thing. It's a it's a fun, interesting South African story. And I'll hold that off and let Marnell share that one with you in the interview. And like I mentioned with Marnell's experience with making wines, she really has this philosophy of trying to make wines approachable and comfortable for everyone by trying to reduce bitterness and harsh tannins to make the wines very pleasurable for almost any palate. And in addition to those amazing wines that they have there at Keepersalt, they also have an on-site distillery where they're making things like vodka and rum and bourbon. And again, it allows them to take that perishable crop and turn it into another non-perishable item they can sell. Plus, it gives a great multi-beverage experience for anyone who comes to have a tasting there and you can try things besides wine. And if you go there to taste, you might want to stay for dinner. They have an incredible steakhouse on the property that allows them to have really fine upscale dining paired with this incredible portfolio of wines that they have there at Keepersall. And let me just say the food is rich, it is extraordinary. We were pleased to be able to stay and dine there after the interview. And my wife, Dean and I, we had such a great time, and the food was so, so good. Highly, highly recommend getting to eat at that amazing steakhouse there when you're there. And if you're traveling there, they also offer some on-site lodging. So if you need a place to stay, you can get everything you need there. You've got a place to stay, you've got that great steakhouse, you've got great wine, such a beautiful area there at Keepers Hall. Now, I had the pleasure of being able to sit down with Marnell Durrett and visit with her a little bit about their totally 100% Texas estate-grown fruit and the wines they're making there and this incredible journey that they've had over the last 27 years through the heart of East Texas. So I don't want to hold you any longer. Let's go hear from Marnell. Howdy, Vine Trippers! I am here at Keepersaw Winery in just south of Tyler, Texas, in East Texas. And I'm excited to be out here in this part of the country. My first time out here for wineries in this area. So I knew when I came out this way, Keepersaw was the first place I had to come visit. And so really excited to share with you a little bit about this winery and its story and some of the great wines that they're providing for you. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go right now to Marnell and we're gonna hear a little bit about some of her story and how this place got founded and going and kind of what they're doing now. So without further ado, Marnell, tell me a little bit about your history and your story. How did you get into this glorious wine industry?

Well, Scott, first, thank you for coming out. Um, on behalf of the wine industry, I want to say thank you for um helping us get our stories out into the market and and to all the guests that listen. So what a blessing you are to us.

It is my pleasure.

Um, yeah, so we started this. This this is an endeavor um between my dad, my sister, and I 26 or seven years ago. Wow. Um, so we started. Well, actually, I was uh uh in high school, okay, and uh my sis and I grew up as daddy's girls. We lost our mom when we were very young. Oh no. So growing up just with dad, it kind of defaults you to a tomboy daddy's girl, right? And um, and uh he was in corporate farming, so he did farming and ranching, yeah. Well, just primarily just farming at first. And it's um it was on the West Coast and the East Coast, um, um almond orchards and um citrus orchards and um vineyards up in um California and Washington State. So he was doing this farming operation, and there's there's actually a a book that he wrote that kind of tells a story of coming to the United States because we're immigrants as well. Oh, really? So coming to the US and um and uh getting to the point of keepersol in our lives, and and then my story picks up where his story uh leaves off. So um uh basically um I was in high school and I remember telling him I wanted to grow peaches. Peaches and every daddy's girl wants to be like her daddy, I guess, you know, and and uh he instead of saying, Oh my gosh, she wants to be a farmer, she wants to be an ag. He uh he came back with, well, let's talk about peaches. Um they're kind of uh they're a tough crop to grow. Um they're very perishable. Um and and something else about us is after immigrating, we immigrated from South Africa um in in uh in 1984. Okay. And um he made a pact with God and raised my sis and I in the in the fact that we will do business without creating debt.

Okay.

So we have a kind of a no debt lifestyle, no debt policy, which slows things down significantly. Um and and we grew into, and when you have enough funds, then you can expand and you bootstrap your way up. Yeah. So it's sometimes it's tough, sometimes we are blessed. Like through COVID, we were so blessed that we didn't have debt, right? And um, but he um said we need to talk about peaches because the volume that we can afford to grow, you're gonna be focusing on um canning and preserving and everything, and and it's in a mar in a farmer's market, basically. Um, so he said, Why why don't we find another crop? He I I learned the process of supply and demand and growing small crop peaches. Yeah.

From his corporate farming background, he had all this knowledge.

100%. So I was like, okay, if not peaches, he said we've got to find a niche crop. And I didn't know what the I was in high school and and niche wasn't a word or niche. And uh, I'm like, what is what does that mean? And didn't bother to really figure out what it meant. And I came back to him and I said, Well, you know what? We should grow roses. And he's like, Roses? What's niche about roses in Tyler, Texas? This is the rose capital. So he said, you know, what about wine grapes? And I was like, Ooh, wine grapes. And I go, Well, who will buy them? Because I was just thinking farming. Right. I wasn't thinking farming and producing, yeah. And I was like, Who's gonna buy the wine grapes? And he goes, Well, think about it. Like peaches, your peaches you grow, you're struggling to figure out how to preserve them if you have a glut crop. If you have a small crop, um, you don't have enough uh to get out there. And he goes, Well, with wine grapes, you take them from the perishable product to a non-perishable product if you learn to make the wine. And now that bottle of wine, if you have a glut crop, you've got enough to carry you a couple of years. If you don't um have enough, the the crop that you had last year, you raise that price and it and it carries you over. So, and we were talking very small um uh winery at the time. Wow, he's such a poor guy. Oh my goodness, you have no idea. So uh I had an opportunity to leave high school. I well, I I drove to Barnes and Noble and I picked up a wine encyclopedia. And it's kind of similar to your story. Okay. The wine bug, once the wine bug bites, you're bit, right? It's like a vampire. And you can see all those winos out there who are super passionate about it. But I was um making wine before I was old enough to legally drink the stuff. All right. And um, I had an opportunity to go to Napa and work at Trefethon Vineyards there, um, and spent some time there. And I was a cellar rat with the UC Davis interns. And um, Peter Luthy was a winemaker at the time. Um, he's a Swiss winemaker, went to UC Davis. Um, phenomenal, phenomenal winemaking philosophy that they have there at Trefe, and and still stay in touch with them. Oh, cool. Um, it was lovely. Uh, we actually served their Chardonnay in our restaurant. It was the first wine I ever bottled was Trefethon Chardonnay from Napa Valley. So um our it was a choice for my sis and I. We're like, do you want to go to college or do you want to start a business? Because we've got money to do one or the other. Okay. And um, I think looking back, I sure could have used those college courses, right? Because I've been in the school of hard knocks at YouTube University, thank goodness for that.

Right.

Um but the the idea was that we have a piece of land in the United States that can sustain multiple generations with agriculture. So that was kind of the vision and the passion. And um, we ran cattle for quite a while. My husband still runs cattle. Okay, and um my sister, um, which we call her the boss, she's Velmay, her name's Velmay. Um, but Velmay does all the behind the scenes stuff. Okay. So I'm operations and she does all the the dealing with the feds on the reporting, dealing with the state, getting payroll done, getting our taxes done, property taxes, the whole shebang.

The non-glamorous stuff.

The non-glamorous stuff. Um, my sister's a saint. Uh, when she's not um keeping keepersol up and going, uh, she has a ministry that she does. Yes, yes. So she has an after after school ministry that she's focused on. So yeah. So that's kind of I do, I guess that kind of answers the question how or why we got started. Um uh the Bible says honor your mother and father. So a lot of the talk that I'll explain, I can't do it without talking about my dad. He passed away in 2016. Um, but he was really kind of the founding, uh, truly the founder of Keeper Saul, um, but but the one who truly laid that vision down for us. So Keeper Saul was going to be his retirement and our uh yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

What a legacy to lay down.

Oh my goodness. And you know, they say first generation builds it, yeah, the second grows it, the third blows it. So we're trying to set our kids up so that doesn't happen.

So set your kids up for failure.

Yes, or we want to set them up for it.

Oh, they're set up for great success.

Whoa, we want to set them up for success, yes. Absolutely. Yep, yep.

Yeah, they blow it out, they make it even bigger than it's a good thing. Hopefully, that's the case.

Yeah, that good, good definition of blow it. I like it.

So tell me a little bit then about this location where we're at here and how you got it started, and when you got it started, and what what you planted. I could see beautiful vines in the background here. So tell me a bit about this location now and how it got started.

So this is uh 73 acres that we purchased in 1994.

Okay.

Um, the first acreage of grapes was a one-acre in 1998. Um, we planted that one-acre test plot. 99, we planted 14 acres. Our first vintage was 2000. Okay. Uh, we were, and and this is according to Doc Russ Kane. Yes, a dear friend of mine.

He's been on my podcast.

And um, according to his book, that uh where I got the data is that we were the 27th working winery, the 34th uh bonded winery in the state. Nice. So um uh tucked away behind the pine curtain, right? Yeah. Um, so uh the interesting thing is that the the uh glassy winged sharpshooter, are you familiar with this little familiar, sadly? Yeah, uh yeah, exactly. So they apparently love loblolly pines, crepe myrtles, and Bermuda grass, and that's what we're surrounded by here. So um, but this 73 acres is where we started. So it's a piece of land that my dad bought. We we called the farm Keepersall. Okay. Um, in South Africa, he grew up on a farm called Keepersall, named after a Keepersall tree. So there's kind of a myth or a story as to how this tree got its name.

Okay.

And um, I think every nation had to fight Great Britain for independence at one point or another, right? So um uh in during the Anglo-Boer War, so South Africa was settled by what was called the Boers. So the Dutch and the French, the French Huguenots settled the Cape and brought winemaking to the Cape of South Africa. Um, and then you had the British come down, and and so, and then of course there's a war, right? So during the uh British Boer War, which is like the late 1800s, early 1900s, fairly recently, actually, um uh the Boer soldiers who spoke a Dutch-derived language called Afrikaans, which is my native tongue and dad's native tongue, um, witnessed three red coated soldiers in the savanna running from a lion. So the red coats were the Brits, right? So they're running from a lion and towards a single trunk tree yelling, something, something, keepersol, something, something, keepersol. And uh later they found out that they were yelling, we hope this tree will keep us all. So keepersol is a mishearing of uh keep us all. Okay. Um so people are always like, Is the are you are you Mrs. Keepersall? Is there a Mr. Keepersall? Like, it's not a surname, it's the name of a tree. Um uh so it's really funny is we have a restaurant here on property and um it's it's reservation only. People will call and they'll go, uh, we know Mr. Keepersaw. Can we get a table? Or Mr. Keepersall said there'd be a table. We'll be like, well, we'd love to meet Mr. Keepersall too. He doesn't wait for him to come visit. Absolutely, yeah. So um, so that's this farm we named keep instead of you know naming new keepers all, it's just where we are, we hope that God keeps us all. So um that is uh the name in of itself is a prayer. So there you go. Um, and uh and we Planted 14 acres and then we expanded to 25 acres and eventually expanding to 63 acres. And then we had a in 21, we had a massive freeze, which everyone knows about. And we lost apocalypse. Yes. And we've been replanting ever since. It's been living debt-free and having to reset 63 acres of vineyard. Um, we we're eating that elephant one bite at a time. But you know what? The interesting thing is we're seeing in the market, we're seeing a decline in wine sales overall. Yeah, you know, in this in this time. Um, so we haven't had the push to get fully back to 63 acres. So we're hovering around. We're hovering around 40 acres right now. And if the demand goes up, then then the vineyard, the vineyard's there, right? Yeah. So, but I told my husband I said I want to plant some walnuts too. So we'll see. Still not going to plant the peaches, though.

You know, it's funny because in my home area there outside in the hill country, Fredericksburg is I've heard that they're not even going to have peaches for the most part this year because of the drought and uh the winter and everything we had.

It's just tough. Peaches are a tough crop.

They're a tough crop.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So people appreciate the peaches when you get them.

Yeah.

That farmer had to work hard.

Absolutely. So, what are you what what all do you have planted here?

So we have, and we did a re when we did the reset, we've actually switched to the walker varieties on a lot. So we do Cabernet Sauvignon. That's a stead, that's a steadfast variety for us. We do uh Syrah, we do Merlot. Okay. Um, we were just talking about Merlot this morning in another video that I did with someone. Um, but Merlot uh is one of my favorites because it it meets the needs of the Pinot Noir drinker and and it scratches the itch of the cab drinker, you know. So I think Merlot is just so beautiful. Uh we do a very nice Merlot. So cab Merlot Sorra, we call though we call those the big three. And then we've got um the walker varieties.

And just for my for my viewers, and we've talked about this on a previous episode a little bit, but when when Marnell was talking about the glassy winged sharpshooter, that is a an insect that carries with it the the insect is not a problem. It's that when it actually feeds on the vines, it actually puts a disease into the vines called Pierce's disease that can be really bad for the vines. And it it loves not only the area here, but I know it loves humid areas as well, which you get a lot more as it's raining in our background right now. And so it's very devastating to a vineyard when Pierce's disease happens. And I know I mentioned before on the podcast, but uh a professor there at UC Davis in California has worked on creating these five varietals that are hybrids that are Pierce's disease resistant. And so those are the ones we're talking about at the moment, discussing, and they're they're really exciting. I recently actually had from one of the uh wineries in Central Texas, who's now they have a bottling that's Pisante and Cameron Noir. Oh, yeah. That's their blend and it's really tasty.

It's really, it's you know, it's like a cab tenot, temper neo, petite, Syrah. It has that the the that nice inkiness to it. Um uh we're having fun with it. It's it's doing great for our blends. It's a it's beautiful because we do quite a few blends here, um, and it make a beautiful barrel 33. We do stylistic blends. Okay. So, and then on the whites, my favorite white, and it grows so prolifically here, is um Blanc de Bois. Yes. And Fran Pontas just wrote it, uh, and I think with with Doc, yeah, Doc Cain. So um they uh wrote the book uh on Blanc, and and it's so versatile. Um, we can get uh beautiful fruity notes in it and gorgeous floral characteristics. And then then if you ferment it really cool, really low and cold fermentation, you just get like hanging mangoes and lychees and and beautiful tropical fruit ending on um, and then uh we we throw some oak, uh French oak in the in the fermenter. And we've also planted a white called um, it's the white, one of the white Walker varieties. Do you remember cominante blanc? Thank you. So, y'all, that was Kelly. She had to help, she had to help me out on the back. Um, and uh we've done two varieties, uh two vintages with it, okay, doing a wine that we call Idelvit. Um, and Idelvit is kind of a Chardonnay style uh wine um for the Chardonnay drinker, essentially. Um full-bodied. Yeah, full-bodied dry, bone dry, more of the apple pear note, um, not so much of that tropical floral muscat style, uh Gerch Dreamer Gerstaminer style. Um so yeah, those those are the primary varieties. I'm trying to think. Um we have we have some black Spanish planted. Yeah. Um, we call that the BS grape. Black Spanish. Uh um, it's a tough grape. It's great for port. Um, um, Papa Palo has has figured out how to make good port out of that grape variety. And um, so we played with port a little bit, but our our specialty with black Spanish is rose. So super crisp, bright uh rose.

Are you only estate-based or do you source through to other places or so we're a hundred percent estate grown.

Okay, but we're not in an AVA, so so it makes it where you can't say estate. So we have to say Texas. Okay. Um, and we've been working on an AVA and the when when you submit it, so if anyone on the podcast is like, I love getting new AVAs, y'all reach out to us, okay? Um, because we've submitted like five or six submissions, it's it's a huge process. And they're like, okay, your borders are the state of Louisiana, the Red River, the Gulf of America, and I-45, right? And we're like, no, no, no, but we have a microclimate. We have we're and and and trying to create that. The I have pictures and pictures of weather patterns to try to get an AVA um and and say kind of explain our microclimate here.

Yeah.

Um, but uh we're 100% estate grown. Uh everything that we produce comes from here. So it's really fun to do verticals. I don't know that there are many wineries that can do a 20-year vertical from one place. Um, so we um yep, our our cab.

Cool.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. We have a 20-year aged port. Oh yes. So uh we have we have a two that well, actually more than 20. We have a 2003 port that we still have. Um, so interesting story about port.

Yes, I love it.

So 2004, port became the right, and we had one in 03.

Okay.

Okay. And they said, okay, if you've produced one, you can use that cola and you were your grandfathered in.

Yeah.

So we were grandfathered in by the hair of our chinny chin chin to do a port.

And that was I you're one of the four wineries in Texas.

I didn't know there's only four wineries.

Wow, okay. Uh our grandfathered. Amazing. Yeah.

So we we still produce a port.

It's awesome.

Um, so very blessed by that. And we still have some of that O3 that we aged for quite a long time, and now it's bottle aging, and um, we'll see how long we can make it last. It's every time we open it, it's like gold.

I know, right? So that's really cool.

Yeah.

And so as you're state-based and you're you can do these incredible verticals for all these different years, you really get such a great taste of the terroir here.

100%.

And I was really impressed. Dita and I both noticed just the color of the soil here, the the deep red kind of color in the soil. What what what kind of soil is this? Like a loam?

It's iron or clay. So this block is iron or clay. And then we have a block. If you look on Google Earth, um, we have a block just, I guess, I don't know, three football fields on the other side of the restaurant.

Yeah.

And um, there it's more loamy clay.

Okay.

Um, so there we'll have Cabernet Sauvignon planted, for instance, and then it'll be four-year-old plants, maybe six-year-old plants, and they're that thick. Already that and then here we've got 20-year-old plants that are that thick. Okay. You know, um, so this is they have to work really hard to grow those roots here. Holds that water in. And uh, we have to battle, we do lose about anywhere from six to ten percent annually to PD.

Okay.

And here's how we live with PD. Um, so we do high zinc treatments um for our Pierce's disease. But what we've discovered is uh PD is it's a the symptoms are a stress response. So the plant's naturally stressed. So when we overcrop it, when it gets too hot, when it gets too dry, um any any type of stress will where the plant has to manage staying alive, right? That's when that plant shows symptoms. So by default, here's this is the craziest thing. By default, um, where in California and other places, they're like, we're gonna stress them, we're gonna, we're we're gonna reduce the canopy and we're gonna get the leaf to grape ratio um just right. We're like, nope, we need all the leaves we can. We need as much photosynthesis happening as we can. This plant's already stressed.

Give it as much help as well.

So we we baby each of these vines and and we naturally have a very small yield and beautiful quality fruit because it's it's it's a default mode, is survive. Right, right.

And all of that energy it's pulling in goes to a smaller yield, so you get a much stronger concentration.

That's right. If we sm if we if we lighten that yield, the plant doesn't have to work as hard. Yeah. Um, so that helps us. So that's kind of a weird way of getting high quality fruit um in the humid area. So we had UC Davis, Virginia Tech, Texas AM, uh UT Tyler about 10 years ago, and Fran Pontash is a massive help and in all this. But everybody tested our entire vineyard, and they're like, every one of your vines that are vinifera tested positive for PD, but you're not showing symptoms.

Interesting.

So uh instead of stressing the vine, it's already stressed, our job is just love the vines. Yeah. So there's our secret.

Yeah, interesting. Little well, let don't let that one slip out.

Well, I uh I think, and we have brothers and sisters here in the area, um, brother and sister wineries, and we tell them the same thing. Like you're gonna get PD, you're in East Texas. Um, fertilize water, don't crop too heavy, and you're gonna get and you're gonna get good fruit.

Yeah, knowing there will be a little bit of loss that you just can't get away with.

And you gotta be prepared for that loss. You know, it's just it's just gonna happen.

Uh once you've got all your fruit, do you process all that here on site? Do you have a processing facility here and everything?

Yeah, we've got a winery uh just right next door to this building. Okay. So we're sitting in the clubhouse right now. This was our tasting room for a few years. And then post-COVID, uh, we took our wedding event venue um that we just built, had all set up for uh weddings, um, had hired a event coordinator October of 19, booked like 15 weddings out, ready to go by March 10th. It was this rumble by April 15th, everyone was canceled. Yeah, yeah. So we turned that into that term social distancing became a thing, right?

Right.

So we're like, well, that building's big enough, so let's move the tasting room there. Okay, and then this instead of a tasting room became our wine club clubhouse. Okay. So and we have this pretty space, this gorgeous view available for events and showers and club events and yeah.

Turn lemons into lemonade or grapes into wine.

All the way, all the time. Yep, yeah.

And uh, how would you describe your winemaking style?

You know, uh, in one word, comfortable.

Okay.

I have another mentor in the industry uh that I actually met in 2003 at uh Messinahof. He gave a speech uh talk at Messinahof. His name is Tim Hanai. Okay, and Tim Hanai, um, I believe was the 11th master of wine in the world. Wow. And um, I think the first U.S. master of wine. Someone may correct me uh if if I get that wrong. But Tim is an advocate for the consumer. And he he taught me so much about um people drinking what they think is supposed to taste good. It's a it's a $50 bottle of wine, or you can compare it to scotch, right? Do you remember the first taste of scotch you ever had?

Oh yeah.

You do? Uh-huh. Was it a was it a nice bottle or yeah, it was a nice bottle. Did you like it?

I didn't at first. I thought I was dr I was licking the earth in the heather of the Scottish hillside.

And you're you're like, it burns, it doesn't taste good. What is this? So the same thing, the same thing happens, but uh you your mind, and he he teaches us that your mind is like, I'm supposed to like this. Right. This is a hundred and fifty dollar bottle of scotch, you know. It this is so you taste it and you're like, this is what good tastes like, this is what good tastes like, this is what good tastes like, you know. And and but you really would rather have uh, you know, Seagram's seven and seven up, right? You you want something that's a little sweeter. Um, so he he talked about and taught us what happened in France. You know who hit the wine market in 1981?

Tell me.

Robert Parker.

Oh, yeah, okay.

Good for Robert Parker because he meets the needs of people uh of a certain dynamic that says, good, you have a scale, a hundred-point scale, and you say this amount of tannin, this amount of extraction, um, this amount of bitterness, and and and Robert Parker says this is good, but I my tongue isn't the same as Robert Parker's. And and and um Tim Hanni kind of was that proponent helping get Moscato out there and to get some to not look down at their nose whenever the guest is like getting a leg of lamb and a white Zinfandel, you know. Um, so our style, all that, see, I told you I gotta do these backstories.

So you're good.

That style, uh Tim actually helped shed light on don't make wine to showcase your winemaking ability. It's not about me. It's not about what I can make, it's about me making something that you like. So finding what the consumer likes. And most consumers don't want most, some do, the Robert Parker people do. Um, and but you want to make wine that the consumer wants to go back and have that second glass where there's no ninja doing karate on the back of their palate. Most people don't enjoy bitter drinks.

Right.

So our style is to minimize bitterness as much as we can. Okay. Through very gentle wine making. Um, to have the wine, if you want to, if you want to quaff it, you can. If you want to have a bite of a burger and take two sips of that glass, it's pleasurable and enjoyable. So we want to have the tannin structure there. You want to feel the astringency, but we don't want you to taste that bitterness. And uh, we work really hard to maintain that style. And it's interesting because non people that are sensitive to bitter, they'll think that they're sweet wine drinkers.

Yes.

But sometimes it's interesting to see someone go, oh, wait, that doesn't burn and it's not, it doesn't hurt when I drink it and it's not sweet.

And it tastes like fruit.

Yeah. And so it's it's um, it kind of helped us because if you're if you are not sensitive to bitter and you try our cab, it doesn't bother you one way or the other. But if you're sensitive to bitter and you try our cab and you're like, oh wow, this is a cab I can drink, yeah, then we're winning. Right. Because two people can enjoy that same bottle together. So um, yes, our style is comfort. Um, something we're trying really hard. We do a lot of research in the tasting room to see what people like, what they enjoy, and how we can mold our winemaking to meet the needs of the guests.

Well, what would you say as a winemaker is the single biggest challenge and the single biggest reward for making growing grapes and making wine here in Texas?

Oh, I think the challenges come with the with the ebbs and flows of the of the market and the season. Um, you know, the challenges in 20 in 2001 were for me, were like, hey, it's Texas and and don't be scared, right? In 01, when we got started, uh, it was a stereotype that Texas isn't good. Um, and and I think that that has shifted. Texas today is where Napa was in just after the judgment of Paris. You know, we're we're like where Napa was in 81, 82.

Yep.

Um, and uh so that that was a massive challenge and we've lived through that. I think if if I were to speak to a challenge today, it would be that um millennials and Gen Z don't drink as much wine. Um so so we're making wine for my generation, Gen X and the baby boomers. Um and uh so I think educating people is a is a great help to that challenge. That's why I'm so excited about you being here today. Um what and the uh the other half of that question was the single biggest reward. The reward. Oh, it's so fun that to watch people have a wow moment, like wow, that's good. Yeah, you know, I think that every day that someone comes with a different expectation, um, they come on property or or they taste the wine, or we get an email saying how we love the taste of your wine, how do we get the wine? And and that knowing that we're making something that people enjoy is such a big reward. Yeah, for sure.

Well, as a winemaker, what is your favorite varietal to work with? Why do you think it's it thrives here?

I love working with Cabernet.

Yeah.

Um, and it's that's probably a juctapos juxtaposition to what so many other people say. Cab for me is the grape that tells a story of a place because cab is grown all over. So if you want to showcase what a place can produce, if you want to showcase terroir, you know, drink a cab from from the left bank, drink a cab from Napa, drink a cab from Fresno, um, try one from New York, um, Mexico, China, Chile, Argentina, and the list goes on, right? So, cab to me tells a story of place because you can compare it to so many other cabs in the world. And then you're like, well, it's the same variety, but grown in that place, in that elevation by that winemaker making those decisions. Um, so I love working with it uh because it it's it's the wine, it's the most romantic one to me.

It really gives you that picture.

Oh, yeah. Um, I love Merlot too. Um, um, all what we call our big three. Uh I and Blanc de Blanc. It's like asking what's your favorite kid? Stop that. I like them all.

I had to put you on the spot for something. Well, with the varieties you have worked with as a winemaker, is there a variety that you've always thought, I really would love to try working with that variety, but you just haven't had a chance?

You know, I I would love to have like four tons of Australian Shiraz.

Yeah.

You know, and that just hot, super extracted, um, and get some of that meatiness in there. Um, that I think that'd be fun. But I I think I'd want to do it in Australia, not here. Um, I think there's just the romance of of doing it in that place.

Right.

Um uh there's not like a variety. There's a lot of varieties I don't know about, actually. So I know the Hill Country's got so much Tanat, and I and Ron Martin, a good friend of ours, he'll he'll bring us wine. And I don't get out much. My head's up a wine barrel here behind the pine curtain. You got a couple things to do here. Yeah, we we stay kind of busy here, but the um I I'm interested in what the what what's happening with Tanot. And we had Temperanillo for a long time and and Snowd took the Temperanillo out. Um, and the Temperanillo was was decent. It was a a thinner skin. We didn't get the inky version of Temperanillo. We got that Sanji O version. Okay. Um, but uh yeah, I think it'd be kind of fun to do something with Tanat. Yeah. But but we just do what we what we're growing. So we'll see how these walk are.

As things change and the the wine culture shifts more towards more wine drinkers, and you decide to expand a little more. Maybe that might be exactly there. You go play around with.

There you go.

Well, let's talk about, let's just turn our attention from the fruit now towards the product of the fruit and some of the wines that you have here. So tell me a little bit about some of the wines that you that you serve.

Yeah, so we have we have our. Our flagship wines, uh, which are white label, keepers wines, um, cab merlot sera, as I said, then then we do a lot of stylistic blends. Um, because we're a hundred percent estate, um, especially when we had Pinot Grigio and we had um uh Savion Blanc, um, sometimes you may not have enough to do a straight, straight varietal, right? Um, so we would do a blend. So we came up with a white blend called Vit. Vit is a phonetic uh pronunciation of simply just white. So when someone from Holland or South Africa comes and we're like, that's the vit, and they're like, oh, that's the white.

Yeah.

We got white. Um so it's a simple name for a blend, but um, the vit is one of our best-selling wines, super balanced, kind of enough, enough sweetness, kind of that reminiscent of a Chen and Blanc. Um, just a touch of sweetness. And uh, it's the wine that the Moscato drinker and the Chardonnay drinker can agree on. That's called Vit. Um, now the flagship label is the white label. Then we have a black label, which is our reserve. Okay. Um, uh this we're looking at a Cabernet Sauvignon right here. Um one of one of my favorites. What do we have here? Then we have a barrel 33. This is our ultra premium blend, also a stylistic blend. And when we say stylistic, we mean it doesn't matter what varieties go into it. It's what's the outcome. Yeah. So we're looking for for this wine, the best word to describe it. Are you ready for this description?

You got me. I'm ready.

All right, this is a warm-weighted velvet blanket for your soul. It is, it's the the dichotomy of wines where it's rich and full, but soft and delicate. Um, because we work so hard on getting on managing that bitterness. And I'll show you when we go look at the winery. We have, um, I learned this in Napa. Um, reducing the use of pumps reduces bitterness. So the more gentle you are, and we use gravity to get everything from tank to barrel. Um, and that makes a super delicate wine and then very, very delicate pump overs um, where we're not beating the seeds against the side of the tank. Yeah. And so um this we don't make every year. Okay. Because um limited production in the vineyard. And then, but it's gotta have that genessequa, it's gotta have that little something, yeah, um, which is the depth and the softness, the astringency. Um, so maybe we can open this and and taste some together. Um, but we've got a whole list of wines that we make. Uh, Ittelvit is another blend. Um, Arctees and Azuka Artis, those are Arctees is a blend that we make. Artis is kind of play of the world word, artisanal.

Okay.

And it's a blend that we make for the Pinot Noir drinker. Okay. So the the consumers that we we want to meet their needs in terms of taste, but we don't have the varieties, right? So we don't grow Pinot, we don't grow Chardonnay, we don't grow uh Riesling here because we just can't. Yeah. And I don't bring it in.

So But your card hits flavor profiles.

We hit the flavor profiles. Um and uh Artis is is uh Sanjiov, oh Sanjiovasi. I forgot to tell you about Sanjiovese. So we have a Sanjiovasi cab blend typically, and that Sangiovese brings some acidity and some lightness to it.

Okay.

Um, and then and we'll harvest the cab a little early for for the Artis. And um that's a beautiful blend that we do that that really hits hits the Pinot, uh, the Willamette style, not the Mayomy drinker. Okay, so Mayomis like it's it's not burgundy and and willamette, right? Uh or or New Zealand. No, Mayom is an animal of its own. Um uh but it has that delicate light dryness that you're looking for with lots of layers of flavor.

So the the overall kind of fruitiness to you as well.

Yeah, yeah.

So tell me about the story of the name, barrel number 33.

So uh dad, as I mentioned earlier, he he was in farming, right? And um he grew grapes up in Washington State, and this was like oh three, oh four, oh three, I think. I remember one of the uh the first cult wineries in Washington, the first winery in Washington, Leonetti Cellars, um back then they they were looking for some fruit, um, and they contracted some fruit with him, and uh it was a big deal because you know, as a as a grape grower, it's like hey, this this ultra premium winery wants my fruit. Yeah. Well, then the growers get access, so it's a it's a cult winery. Basically, they open once a year. You have to be on a list to get a bottle. It's one of those it's one of those situations, and they're phenomenal people up there. And um uh he he bought a case, and um I remember the case comes in. Now we're just getting started, yeah, and we're in Texas, and and at this time people still are like, we don't believe in Texas wine, you know. So, and we're running everything on on a debt-free system, and and there's lots of things that are too expensive for us, right? So we're looking at this, and uh the package comes in, and we're like, where did I get this packaging? We're looking, and and you this beautiful purple box and open it up, and um, there's other layers of glossy boxes in there and uh or glossy cardboard, and you pull that back, you pull these gorgeous bottles out, and just un it's like it's like the first time this unboxing, you know, your your new iPhone, but better. Um, so you get it open, and I remember um there's a bottle of Merlot, and he's like, Let's open it. And so we open the Merlot, and I was so proud of my dad because he's proud of this wine. And um he was enjoying it, he had a moment to relish, yes, right? But then there's something that happened inside me. I the green monster started coming out, and instead of feeling proud of dad that he contributed to this phenomenal, inky, gorgeous, delicious, balanced, beautiful Washington State wine. Yeah, I was like, he's like, look at this. And and and I think he picked up on it. He picked up on, and and he's like, How's it taste? I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. And he's like, now this this is how you know you there's a good dad. You can coddle or you can put a little adversity in there. And he and and instead of going, Oh, it's fine, we'll make wine good that good one day. It'll be fine. He's like, Let's just twist the knife. He goes, Man, he's swirling that glass. Man, I wish we could make wine this good.

Uh he planted that seed.

Oh, did he ever? And I was like, Maybe, maybe one day we'll make wine this inky and this beautiful. Yeah. And um, but he totally did. He totally planted that seed. About six months later, I'm topping in what's now the distillery, which we'll show you, but it's in the winery. I'm topping barrels. I'm listening to, I had this little yellow jam box, and it was playing Hotel California. I, you know, you know, you remember a moment.

Yes, yes. It sticks in your ear.

It sticks.

Yeah.

Um, I'm listening to this song, and um, we had some old Franciscan barrels uh that we were aged. Like I had used trophethin barrels, used Franciscan barrels. My dad's like, why are they getting rid of those barrels? We'll take them. Right, you know? Um, so poor boy style. Those are expensive. Yeah. And uh we had we were fermenting in dairy tanks and had used barrels. It's just a mess. I'm uh you I'm so glad that we knew at least how to sanitize tanks and didn't bring in uh the microbes from the dairy farm. But uh nonetheless, uh I'm topping barrel 30, 31, 32, topping, going through motion, get to barrel 33, pour the wine. You pour the wine in when you're topping barrels and it displaces the air. So you get an idea of the aromatics coming from that barrel. And I was like, wow, that just I just got hit with coffee and raspberry. And it wasn't coffee and raspberry in this barrel. So I go to 34 and I'm like, wait a minute, what's different about this barrel? So I take a step back, I look, it's a Franciscan barrel. I don't know what wine they had in it before. I'm, you know, I'm stumped, so I get off the ladder, I go pull a thief, I pull a sample, and I'm pouring it into the glass. I'm like, dang, this is inky. This is gorgeous. So something with the tannins helped hang on to the color, and I'm trying to navigate it. And then up pops pop up the angel and the devil. And the devil's like, maybe you should go down and get a bottle of Leonetti. Go down to dad's cellar and get some Leonetti. And um, so I called my dad, like, Daddy, where are you where are you working? And he's like, I'm at the welding shop, I'll be here for a while. And um I was like, Coast is clear. So I head down to the to the house. I get in the cellar, I'm looking in there, and I find the Leonetti. And this was a Merlot at the time. I find a Merlot, I run it back up to the lab, and I'm like, I we hit the mark. I know we hit the mark. So I'm opening it up, I pour a sample, pour a sample of 33. And there's something about when I first was making wine, I remember having people taste it. I'm like, does it taste like wine? You know, not does it taste like it's supposed to? Did I make wine? You know? Um, and this was kind of one of those validating moments where um it was uh inky, it was full and rich. I taste them side by side. I'm like, I don't know if I'm going crazy, but we're in the arena, you know. So I called dad again. I said, Are you still at the welding shop? He said, Yes. I said, Do you have something uh to do right now? Can I bring, I'm working on something. Can I bring some samples to you? And he's like, sure, uh, bring me some samples. So I show up there, he had a Chevy avalanche. We pulled the tailgate down and we set up this tasting. I poured the wine into two Erlin Myers and set them down in front of him, got the glasses, and he's like, What are you doing? What are you working on? And he's taking off welding helmet and kind of getting his mind on. And I go, I'm not gonna tell you what I'm doing. Just tell me which wine sample you like the best.

Okay. And blind tasting.

Complete blind tasting. And now, instead of excited, my butt starts clenching, my stomach starts hurting, my pits start sweating. I'm like, oh my gosh, he's gonna. How do I get that cork back in the bottle if he doesn't like this one? Am I gonna tell him I opened up his Leonetti, you know, his hundred something dollar bottle of wine?

This is your own judgment of Paris, Gloy.

Yeah, 100%. So um he's tasting, and we've got the I the best I can remember is I think the Leonetti was on the left, the the um barrel 33 was on the right, and he tastes it, and he's like, Oh, this is super good. What is this? And I'm like, I'm gonna tell you what it is. And he tastes the barrel 33, and he's sitting there, and he goes, I don't know what you're working on, but and he pushed the Leonetti back and he pulled the 33 up and he goes, but this is less bitter. I think whatever you did this one, I like this one better. Oh my god. You can't, you can't imagine. And I was like beaming, and I was like, Daddy, that is Leonetti Merlot. That is the Merlot we have in barrel number 33 at the winery. And he's like, My Leonetti? Wait, that's my Leonetti? And I was like, Yeah. And he had a moment, and and I get that watermelon in my throat because he this is kind of like the peach thing where he could have said, Don't grow peaches, do something else. But instead he said, Let's talk about peaches. Um he didn't even say don't do, he didn't say don't do farming, do something else. He said, Let's figure out the right thing to farm. And what he said in this moment, and that that's how this wine got its name, was he goes, I got my wish. Oh so it is barrel number 33, Texas Wish.

Wow.

Isn't that an incredible story?

We're going all the way back to where he said, I wish I wish we could make line like this.

It gives me goosebumps just telling the story.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah, it's it was really cool. Of of this one. So it's a stylistic blend. So we don't make it every year. It's got to meet those needs, it's gotta meet that um that little niche. So every one of our wines have a saying. So this there's 14 of them. So this one's carve your own niche.

That is a beautiful wine. So I can see why that's a special limited thing there.

This is a sp this is a special wine. And you know what? We just hit you like right with now. It's like I can't even, we can't pour anything else. So now we just have to move on to the bourbon, right?

Well, and that was gonna be my next question. So beyond wine, you have a distillery here. And so tell me a little bit about some of that. How did that get started? And then what do you offer there?

So Tyler, Texas was dry. So Dina, she's in the background saying that you you're like, so in 2020, I'm like, in 1933, um, so Tyler's dry has been dry for years and years. Yeah. Um, 2004, TDA got behind uh the industry, saw the economic impact that the wine was having on the industry, started lobbying, changing some of the blue laws, making it easier to have a winery in a dry county and in a dry city. Um, so the law changed. We're able to open up a winery in the city limits of Tyler. And um, and here we are, those crazy foreigners, 11 miles south of loop 323 in Tyler, Texas. And we are um, I'm I remember going to see Bear Dalton in Houston, Texas, to try to sell wine to specs. And we're just hitting the market. People aren't coming to the wine at that time, right? Um, and we were like, okay, it's time to take the wine to the people. So the law changed, everything's in our favor. Let's open up a little mini winery in the heart of Tyler.

Okay.

So we made history. We're the first place that you can buy a closed container bottle of alcohol since pre-prohibition. Wow. And in Tyler, Texas. Yeah. And um, you know, you have to post where if you're starting a business, you post in the newspaper, you're starting a business, and um, we got hate mail. Like they're like, you're gonna defaced Broadway. Um, I can't drive my kids down Broadway.

Um they can't.

It was, it was, and and I'm a dunked, bona fide Baptist winemaker, y'all. Um, and uh so breaking all the uh stereotypes of of Baptists here making wine, but um it was a big deal. And we talked to people and said, okay, we're gonna keep it classy, don't worry, we're opening this little wine shop. And the opening day, this was in 06, opening day, we're prepared for picketers. We said a prayer as a family, we didn't know what's gonna happen, and the exact opposite happened. Tyler took to keep her soul line. Really? We became Tyler's winery. And having that no debt philosophy, it was a phenomenal opportunity for us because we were producing and selling it in town. So we did bond-to-bond transfers to the other winery, right? So we're we have this pseudo-tasting room. We did some production there just to say, yes, we're a winery. You know, we had to meet the legal requirements. KVC was we sold so much wine direct to consumer that we were able to pull out of the wholesale market. We were selling so much wine that I'm calling Mark Hyman at at uh Glano Estacado, I'm calling Paul Bonarigo, we're calling Fall Creek, Flat Creek, Enoch Stomp, all the wineries that we could reach out to at that time and saying, hey, can we do bond-to-bond purchases? We'd love to sell your wine. So we we became KE sellers. We're selling their wine. It was a great run. I was producing the wine, dad was growing the grapes, my sis was selling the wine and running the little wine shop there. We had restaurant managers here still running the estate. And from 20 2006 to 2012, we were able to take all that revenue, put it back into the farm, grow up to 63 acres. Um, and we were we were fat and happy, right? Now people started calling my dad and they go, hey, wet dry is gonna be on the ballot. How do you want to, how do you want us to vote? So he calls my sister and I, and his his calls to us were like, Hey, Marnell, get your husband. We need to have a meeting. Hey, Velmay, get your husband, we need to have a family meeting. So we show up, I've got little babies in tow, and um, he was he had a thick South African accent till the day he passed. And he said, Um, well, wet dry is gonna be on the ballot. We've got a decision to make because people are calling us saying, How should we vote, wet or dry? And he goes, So we have influence, but he always reminded us he's a phenomenal patriot. Yeah, and um, he was such a patriot. I'm gonna divulge just for a moment because I gotta I gotta tell this story. And he loved NASCAR, and if he watched NASCAR race and the anthem came on, he stood.

Okay.

And if we were talking, walking, doing anything, a shoe would get thrown at us. You better stop and respect that flag uh in our home, you know, and and we did. And he was such a patriot. He'd remind us, he goes, We immigrate to a free country. Yes. Now, is it free to have wine on that side of the county line in the great state of Texas, the United States of America, and not on this side?

Yeah.

And like, no. So he's leading the witness. No, it's not free. Okay. Well, um, people are asking us how we should vote. Wet dry is going to be on the ballot. And we have two options. We can vote dry, and we can hang on to a pseudo-monopoly for a little bit and have a scarcity mindset, or we can vote wet.

Yeah.

Freedom comes at the cost that our soldiers pay, and it comes at the cost of competition. And that's free market.

Yeah.

So um, we got to put our big girl pants on and we've got to compete. And I remember we just planted four acres of Zinfandel. And at the time, this is in 2012. Barefoot hasn't come charting into the market yet. In 2012, it was still Zinfandel, it was still the Critter Craze from Australia. You had um you had your Behringer, your Sutter home, and then you had Yellowtail and Little Penguin, right? And um, and they were selling white Zin in the supermarket for like $4.99, $6.99. And due to uh economies of scale, we're this tiny little winery in East Texas. We're buying, we're not even buying a truckload, we're buying, you know, five pallets of bottles. Yeah, um, we're buying bags of corks where you're paying a premium price. And by the time we get our glass, our cork, our foil, our label, we've got four bucks into the packaging. Right. You know, so it's like, how can we compete? And I remember telling my dad, I'm like, we just planted at Zinn. Yeah, we're not gonna be able to compete. Well, he had like two or three weeks with the news, and he's coming up with ideas. And uh we said, okay, we're gonna vote wet, but we've got to come up with how to compete because I don't know what we can make, how we can hit the market with the white zen. Because at that time in KE sellers, we're selling Zen for 10 bucks a bottle.

Right.

And you know what they called white zen back then?

The pink one.

Chateau cash flow. Yeah. Okay. So it runs and and and it's it's gonna turn that bottle back into cash. And and so um dad goes, we're gonna have to compete. And he goes, so uh competing means if that wine is gonna get the keepersaw label, it has to be able to compete in the global wine market in terms of quality and price. If it says, Oh, it's just it's just good for Texas, it's just good, no. It's got to compete globally in terms of quality and price. If it can't compete, and I'm like, what? If it can't compete, what? And he goes, Well, turn it into vodka. And I'm like, Daddy, we're not Russian. We don't drink vodka. What do you mean we're going to turn it into vodka? And he said, Well, think about it. There's and there's this new vodka on the market. And vodka was still hotter than bourbon at that time. There's this new vodka called Syrok. Sorok is 100% grape-based vodka. Okay. And he goes, There's a there's a demand in the marketplace for vodka. So you take your grapes from a perishable ag going back to that crop to a non-perishable crop. Now you can take those grapes and turn it into what's in demand in the marketplace. Yeah. So if we can't compete with Zinn, then let's turn it into vodka. And the cool thing about him was I think when you you people sometimes see the negative and they see the positive. My dad expected adversity. He expected it to be hard.

Yeah.

So he was like, it's gonna be hard, but we're gonna find a path through it. Where other people like, how are you gonna get a distillery permit? How are you gonna do that? How are you gonna do this? How are you gonna do that? And he's like, We're gonna figure out how, if someone else can do it, we can do it. Right. And he used to say, the president is just a man. He puts his pants on one leg at a time. If he can figure out how to be president, we can figure out how to make vodka. Um so uh that's the very, very unromantic yet true stories. So why we have a uh distillery in the heart of a wine estate. Okay. So it's not like some passion and you know, great grandfather brought the corn and blah, blah, blah. Nope, nope, nope. We're uh a farmer trying to make a plan on how to sell the crop. Now we were blessed because um my husband was a bourbon buff. Okay. Um, he's a practicing physician, and um, and we collected, he collected bourbon. And uh dad's talking about getting the still, and he's like, well, we ought to make bourbon. And so we started with vodka, bourbon, and then my dad, if he ever drank, when he drank alcohol, it wasn't just a glass of wine, um, it would be a rum and coke.

Okay.

And uh, so we're like, let's let's try our hand at rum. So the first three spirits out of our distillery uh are are vodka, Dirk's vodka, named after my grandfather, my dad's dad, uh, Jimmy's bourbon, named after my husband's grandfather, okay, and Pierre's rum, named after my dad. So those are the three, that's kind of the the inception. And then um uh it's it changed after COVID. Um COVID was tough because we have a restaurant, we had to repermit it. We had to figure out how to sell, we're closed for five months, and um and uh phenomenal attorney, uh liquor attorney said, you know, you just need to repermit the whole place as a winery distillery and sell your spirits out of the restaurant. But at the time, the restaurant had a different liquor permit and um said we had to sell our product to a distributor to get it to our restaurant, right? And she said, repermit everything. But here's the thing a distillery, you can't have off-premise alcohol on premise. Right. So you're gonna have you got to make a decision. You want to just sell your products, or do you not want to sell your products to go and still have this vast array? And we're like, ah, we make it, we need to sell it, you know. So um, that was a huge shift for us because now Jack Daniels, um, triple sec, uh, Shamboard, all the supporting spirits, all these spirits had to go. And I remember thinking, telling my husband, we live in Tyler, Texas. Margarita is like the number one selling cocktail in East Texas. Right. Uh, we don't make tequila.

Yeah.

Now we can't sell tequila. We don't make shamboard. We don't make these things. So at the time we had um our mixologist, she was furloughed, and her name was Emily, and I called Emily up and I said, Emily, and she's like, Miss Marnell, are we are we getting to come back to work? Are we opening up? And I'm like, no, not yet. But I do need you to come back to work because I need you to help me uh figure out how to make Bailey's and Shamboard and triple sec and and all this stuff. And there's this silence on the other side of the phone, and she goes, Miss Marnell, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but are you smoking crack? And I was like, No, Emily. And she goes, How are we, how, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna do that? And I was like, I don't know, YouTube it.

I don't know, we're gonna we're figuring out how to make this stuff because attitude they can find a way.

We'll figure it out. So um we now, something that that sets us apart from a lot of people is that every thing we sell in our three bars. So we have a bar here in the clubhouse, a bar at the restaurant, and a bar in the tasting room is 100% produced here. So um we do our own infusions, we do our own, so we can't sell them um um because they don't have a cola, but they're basically a drink in the process, right? So we do infuse vodka, we do our own um triple sec essentially, or orange liqueur. Uh it's actually really easy to make. It's like vodka sugar, and you soak some orange orange peel in there, and boom, you've got triple sec. So once you once you YouTube it, you figure out how easy things are, y'all, y'all can do anything you set your mind to, okay? Or YouTube it. Um, so now our whole bar uh are from spirits that we produce here. And my husband brings in um agave concentrate from another distillery in Jalisco, and we take that concentrate, put it through the still, and make our own agave spirits.

Oh, there you go.

So, yep. So, yeah, we uh we have a full micro distillery, so we produce enough to uh meet the demands here on the estate, and then we can sell four bottles per guest per month. So we are limited. Um, but in the industry's tough. We're we you can find our bourbon, our vodka, and our rum in the marketplace, um, specs and uh total wine, uh pogos in Dallas, all these places, but the the supply is limited because we just lost our distributor. We didn't have we weren't contracted with them. We're seeing the same thing happening with spirits that's happening with wine. There's decline in consumption. The distributor has to keep their contracts up with the big guys. And they gave us a call and they're like, look, we're we're we're just not moving enough.

Right.

Um, and we have a cult following on our bourbon. And um, people are like, they're finding these honeywells that still have them. Um, but they make trips out here. We sell out. Um, we every batch is a small batch. And um uh Dylan Latham is our distiller. Uh, my husband kind of just does the directing, the farming. Um, but between him and between Dylan and my husband, there's 30 years of passion in in bourbon. They both went to school in Kentucky and um do phenom are you a bourbon drinker by chance? Okay, great. It'll be fun tasting this with you because um it's classic. Uh they try to not get too much of that Texas heat, yeah. Um, and a low entry proof, and uh, it's like their little liquid gold baby. Um, and when you run everything on small batch, yeah, it's it's easy to go high quality. You know, let's just focus on making it taste good for the consumer.

Well, I I think at this point my viewers are probably excited and want to come in to do a tasting. So let's walk through just a little bit of what a tasting might look like if somebody comes in. So if somebody comes into the tasting room here, do you for and they want to do a tasting, do you have a set flight of wines that they can taste or do they pick their own wines, or how does that look?

Um, you know, it's it's kind of curated for that guest experience. Um, it depends on what they're looking for. Sometimes guests come in, they don't even, they've never had wine before, so we'll guide them through. Um, we we have 30 something different bottles. So they're so we we don't a lot of times we'll have a lot of them open, but um, we don't have everything open all at once, but we do have things open that meets each person's palette.

Um files we were talking about right.

Exactly, exactly. And then so you can do your you you come in, no reservation required um at this time. Um, we just want people to come on property. I always say, you know, if we can just pick this up and put it on 290 because we've got all the products. We just need the people. Yeah. Um, but um uh so you just come in and uh belly up to the bar. And if the bar's full, we should have tasting stewards that can take care of you or get something in your glass while you wait for a uh spot to open up on the tasting bar. Saturdays are pretty busy. Yeah, um, we're open 11 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Okay.

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, show up. And um, and there's plenty of stewards that will help guide you through the tasting. Um, and then we have other things we offer. We have wine classes.

Uh-huh.

Um, just check the Keeper Soul website for uh all of our events. We'll do vertical tastings for club members. Um, and sometimes you know a club member, you can get into that vertical tasting. Um, or just become a club member. Uh you can do that. Um yeah, so and we also have cocktails and we have uh food. We have well, we have charcuterie, and then people wanted hot items.

Okay.

So we took the this this is a brilliant thing that that we did is we took the charcuterie meats and cheeses and we slapped them between two massive loaves of sourdough uh slices, lather it in butter, yeah, and uh put it in a panini press. And it is like the most delicious. The funny thing is, we're like, hey, we have a winery with a distillery, and people are driving from Dallas for grilled cheese. You know? So um we've got good grilled cheese sandwiches, um, their gourmet grilled cheese, and one like the hottest seller is like bacon, cheddar grilled cheese. So bacon, sourdough bread, cheddar cheese, grilled cheese. It's cheese. Kind of sinful, yeah. It's but it goes so well. Do the French paradox here. Have it with some red wine and it everything will be fine.

Yeah. Well, how much does a tasting cost typically?

Uh, so to taste five wines is 20 bucks.

Okay.

And then do they need reservations for that?

No reservation, no reservations required. Now, if you have if you're walking in with 10 or more people, give us a give us a heads up. Sure. So we'll we'll have a table. We'll we'll want to accommodate, you know, a large party. Um, but if it's two, four, six tops, uh, y'all just show up, come see us.

Do you have any maximum group sizes?

Not really. Like, yeah, check in with us. Um, because if you if you're gonna bring 20, 30, 40 people, we'll bring a steward here and we'll put you in the clubhouse. Okay, you know, to accommodate as needed. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Give us like uh if you're gonna bring 20 plus peep 10 to give us a call the day before, you know, and we'll get some staff in if we need to.

So what about if people have kids or pets or things? Are you animal friendly or kids and pets are welcome?

Here's here's the thing because the bistro, we unless it's a service dog, we'd rather the the animals stay outside. Um, but your service animals are welcome in the grand tasting room, is just a big room. The bistro is right there. So uh we don't want just animals walking around all over. But uh pet friendly outside, we'll get water for your pooch. Um, just keep them leashed and um yep, kid friendly and all the good, all the good stuff.

What about what are your busier and slower times? What's the best time for someone to come visit?

Um, like seasonally, like throughout the year. So um Saturdays are busy. Okay. Um, they're fun, they're hopping. Um, if you're if you're an enthusiast and you want a lot of one-on-one time, we've got Kevin Cato. He's um uh well-educated, um, W set uh knows our wine, knows our winemaking philosophy, and he's all about getting the guest that really good treatment. And um, Kevin can spend, you know, two hours with you. Right. That can't be done on Saturday, you know. So if you want any other day of the week, you want some one-on-one time with Kevin to walk you through, give you a little lesson. Um, for 20 bucks, you know, it's it's a great deal. Right. You come in and um uh a really fun time to come is December. So Black Friday, we do something really cool. Um, that the Friday after Thanksgiving, we have a lighting of the vines ceremony. So we have the entire vineyard here. This is 24 acres. We'll have the entire vineyard. Every third row is lit with Christmas lights. Oh, wow. And um, so we'll have a pastor come out and talk, and we have the place gets filled up, and we have this little ceremony where we light up the vineyard. And um, our Advent season, so from Black Friday to Christmas, we we're kind of counting it down. So it's a beautiful little Hallmark Christmas village. Um, and uh so that's a beautiful night to come out. And and one thing that leads us, my sister, myself, uh, the other leaders in the company and our spouses is our faith in Jesus. Um, it's really important to us, and every opportunity we get, we want to give him the glory. Uh more than more than our Father on earth, we want to give the glory to to God in heaven. And he gives us our daily bread, he provides for us each day. And um, and uh this is his vineyard, and uh um that's a fun time for us to shed some light on our faith too. Right. Yeah.

So you mentioned uh I want to come back to one thing real quickly. We've talked about not needing reservations, but I think earlier you talked about for the restaurant reservations.

So restaurant does need reservations, yes. So we have we have we have two places you can come visit. Actually, you can come, we have an inn. So there are 14 rooms, 13 rooms here. Right. Um, and you can come stay on property um and you get breakfast. And so Saturday we serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner at our restaurant.

Okay.

Um, and the grand room is open Tuesday through Saturday, 11 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Okay.

Um, and uh here at the grand room is super casual. Uh have there you just have grilled cheese, you hang out, you're outside, you're inside, you got your dogs with you, shorts and t-shirts and flip-flops. The restaurant is a fine dining steakhouse. So it's um it's you know, at minimum like a golf shirt. We want, we want, we don't want you to look like you just stepped out of the gym. Right.

We came off a lake.

Uh lake gym, yeah, because you have people celebrating. It's a special occasion restaurant, and we have people celebrating wedding anniversaries. Yes. So um uh a little bit, little dressier, and uh the food's phenomenal. We a chef Robbie has been with us for 25 years. Um, yep. So uh we we've got a our roots are deep. We we didn't we weren't born in the United States, uh, but you know what, we got to Texas as fast as we could and planted them, and I'm so proud to be able to stay out in Texan. Yeah, for sure.

So right now the viewers are getting excited, they taste the wine, everything's great. Now they want to join your wine club. Tell us about that.

Oh, it's super easy. Um, so the wine club is basically you're committing to three, six, or twelve bottles every quarter.

Okay.

So it's not not a massive commitment. Um, and then with that, as uh one of the benefits of being a club member other than special events, and we do a grape stomp and verticals and all kinds of special events. The other thing is you get five, 10, or 15% off of all your purchases across Keepersaw.

Yeah.

So you go to the restaurant, if you're a gold club member, you get you get that discount there. Um, so and then you just hop on our website. There's a button, super easy. Join the club and it walks you through, um, get kind of get your taste profile. And um you can pick, do you want to be reds? Do you want to be winemaker's choice? Do you want to be sweet? You know, what's your what's your category? And then uh we'll curate those packages for you and and we send them out on a regular basis and um and uh yeah, try to keep up with all of our club members and and we have club socials that are super fun where we come to the clubhouse or in the grand room and we cook and um uh have music and just gather.

So we talked a moment about uh dis distribution on the spirits. Do you do any kind of distribution of your wines as well?

Yes. So we are uh I just heard um uh yesterday actually that we're in the H E B in Wimberley. Oh wow. Um so um uh we you can find us in all the major things. So we have our flagship wines. So you can't get Barrel 33, you can't get our black label reserves, but you can get our flagship um all across Brookshire's uh Brookshire Grocery Company here in East Texas, um, a few of the H E Bs.

So it can, I'm sure people can buy on your website as well.

Oh yeah. Okay. Yep, yeah.

I'm starting to think of ways that if listeners can't get here to taste it, that they might still be able to do that. Absolutely.

Just click on the wine, we'll get it packaged to you. Now we've got a couple of months here where we don't want to ship it. It's hot. We can buy ice packs and it just gets so expensive to ship it. But if you guys can wait through the summer, if you can't make the trip, then um uh come see us September. I think we'll start shipping again. I think we're gonna, I'm not sure when we're gonna stop shipping, like a couple of weeks.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes, it's so hot.

So we talked a little bit about the way you bootstrapped the no-depth philosophy, the slow addition, things like that, uh, and and maybe the possibility of expanding the vineyard or things like that. But do you have any plans for future growth or ideas or things that you'd like to see growth-wise in the future?

We always have plans. You know, uh, there's always plans for future growth. And and sometimes growth looks like you don't see it on the surface, but it's in the roots. Um, growth in terms of the experience that people have here and in continuously improving that. Um, but you know, we're we're watching the market, you know, putting more vineyard in right now is not the wisest spot to put your cash uh right now. Um, but we're winemakers and grape growers through and through, and we're gonna hang through this little lull and that we're seeing and and uh hopefully keep getting people coming out and trying wine and and finding the the wine lovers in the younger generation and educating them. Um so the growth, I think we're in a season of of growing our roots and growing, growing our hospitality and the experiences you get in that before we we decide to plant more vineyards. So um makes sense. So yeah, yep.

Well, there are a lot of great places in Texas that people can go to drink amazing wine, keepersaw being one of those. So I want to know, in your opinion, what do you think is the thing that really separates Keepersaw from the rest of the pack? So that people would say, Man, I really want to get that on my list and get there as quick as I can.

Well, um it's hard to to say what really set separates us because you have to have that point of reference to to go, you know, we're kind of uh behind the pine curtain. I visit and and see the wineries, and so many are doing so many phenomenal things. For us, I think the reason to come out here is to have a full experience, is to have a submive experience, and you can trust it because it's about you and not us. It's really about you discovering what you like, um, what you enjoy, and finding that wine that just sticks. We want everyone to leave here to go, I found a wine that I liked. And um, and uh these people treated us well. And um I think to to really the ultimate truth is that you came here and you felt loved. And if warmth and love and kindness and a place you can just rest and you not worry about the world, and um, and then I hope that they ask why it feels so good here, because then I'll tell them about Jesus.

All right. Well, that's a great story. I I'll drink to that too. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you.

And while you're there, I highly recommend on their website you check out their blog for updates, looking into those wine club tiers that Marnell told us about in the interview, and exploring that on site in if you're looking for a weekend getaway stay. And don't forget, when you go see them, make sure you tell them you heard about them on this podcast, Texas Under Vine. All right, it's time. Let's reveal the wine wanderer bottle that I picked up while I was there. Did an amazing tasting after the interview and got to really sample a lot of these amazing wines and even some of the spirits there that they have at Keeper Salt. And for my wine wanderer bottle this time, I chose, again, something a little different for me, a sweet wine. This is the 2024 Texas Chila. So it is a South African term, if I remember correctly. And one of the cool things about this, it's a sweet wine, but it is actually made. The grape that's used in this is one of the new Walker varieties, which is 100% commonante blanc. I think I pronounced that correctly. And this wine, one of the things that was so cool is it reminded me a lot of a wine that I adore from France called Sauternes. So again, I'm not a huge sweet wine drinker typically, but I love Sauternes. And this was so reminiscent, had such great flavor, and it had such a great balance of fruit and smoothness. And it was an absolute treat to be able to drink this. And one of the things, again, I love about this is that walker variety really is helping to fight Pierce's disease, which is such a struggle for a lot of Texas growers. And those varieties carry this natural resistance to that Pierce's disease. So hopefully, we will begin to see a lot more of these beginning to surface throughout the Texas wine scene. It's a huge step forward for Texas wine culture, and this is a great example of one of those amazing varieties. You gotta make sure you try this one when you go to see them. Alright, well, it's time for me to pack up my things here in the Tyler area and head on down the road. I'm staying in East Texas, so I've got some other great destinations I want to bring to you. And we'll see what other fun stories await us as we hit the road. Now, as always, if you're enjoying the show and you would like to support my mission, please visit my Patreon page. And if you're joining us on YouTube, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe. And I would love to hear from you in the comments. Marnell mentioned in the interview that people will sometimes drive all the way from Dallas just to get a taste of that amazing grilled cheese that they have in the tasting room. So you tell me, what's your favorite comfort food that you just love to pair with a bold Texas red wine? Leave that comment down below. And with that, my time is up. So don't forget, subscribe to the podcast and follow my socials to be notified anytime a new episode is released. And until then, happy trails and bottoms up, y'all. Thanks for listening to Texas Undervine. We strive to provide you with the best information about wine businesses all over Texas. Be sure to check out our website at Texasundervine.com and follow us on our socials at Texas Undervine to stay up on all the upcoming episodes. Please email us with any suggestions or feedback. Also, contact us if you're interested in donating, sponsoring, or advertising on the podcast just to help us cover our expenses and bring even more great info to you in future episodes. Above all, travel safely and most especially, drink responsibly.