Westcave Cellars (Hill Country)

[00:00:06] Howdy Vine Trippers, I wanted to take just a moment to talk to you about the Texas Wine Lover website and their phone app for both iPhones as well as Google devices. You can actually download this app, put it on your phone or just go to the website if you're not an app person. And if you ever want to go visit some of these great locations that we've been talking about in the podcast, this will give you a great information about the place before you go. And you'll be able to find other wineries in the area.

[00:00:33] So if you want to make a day of it, go see several other places as well. You can search by region. You can sort the listings, find ones that are kid friendly, family friendly, even ones that host RVs. All kinds of different sortable listings you can find there in that app and on the website. You can find other things as well in the area like restaurants, accommodations, maybe events that are going on at the different wineries.

[00:00:56] So it's your one-stop resource that goes hand in hand with this podcast to be able to find those great places to go visit. So check out the Texas Wine Lover website. It's txwinelover.com or go to their app. You can find it on the Google Play Store or the Apple Store as well. Enjoy your trips among the vines and use that app.

[00:01:17] Welcome to Texas Undervine, an exploratory podcast to scout out the best Texas wine country has to offer.

[00:01:47] I'm your wine guide, Scott, and I'm here to lead you on an auditory expedition to the vineyards and wineries across the great Lone Star State. Each episode will cover a different vineyard, winery, or wine-related business operating in Texas. You'll hear interviews, descriptions, and details about each location. It will excite you to visit and experience them for yourself. Ready to plan a wine tour? Use these episodes to choose the most interesting spots for you and your friends to check out.

[00:02:15] Most of all, enjoy hearing about the rapidly growing wine industry in the state and what makes our wines and wineries the best. Howdy, fellow vine tripper. Welcome to episode 61 for the Texas Undervine podcast.

[00:02:41] So for today's episode, I ventured a little deeper down the Wine Road 290, right in the heart of Texas wine country, the Hill Country region. I continued my journey just off the main road of the Wine Road 290 in High, Texas to a place called West Cave Cellars and Brewery. Although this isn't the first physical location for this particular wine destination, which we'll tell you more about later,

[00:03:09] they actually settled in on this place not too long ago, about four or five years ago, and settled in here into the heart of the wine tourism area for Texas. This winery is owned by Alan and Margaret Fetty. Alan actually started his career in the technology industry and found himself traveling a lot of time to California, right up near Napa Valley, and developed a love for wines as he would travel through there,

[00:03:37] fell in love with many different varietals of wine while he was there in Napa Valley. And in the mid-90s, he planted a small kind of experimental vineyard in his backyard in his home in Dripping Springs, Texas. And along with taking some extension classes at UC Davis while he was on some of his trips, he started to get this bigger dream for planting a much larger vineyard.

[00:04:02] And in 1999, they realized that dream by planting their first larger vineyard, starting with Cabernet Sauvignon. And this was on a larger 60-acre plot, just kind of southwest of Austin on an area called Hamilton Pool Road, which was actually right across the street from West Cave Preserve, which is where they drew the moniker for their winery of West Cave Cellars.

[00:04:31] Their original goal was really just to maintain the vineyard and grow fruit that they sold to other wineries and other locations. And they did that for several years before taking a trip up to Washington State. And after tasting some great Washington State wines there, Allen began to get the bug in him and started thinking, you know what, we could make wine as well. We've got the grapes.

[00:04:57] Why can't we make great wine here in Texas like they're making up there in Washington State? So in 2010, they did just that. They began producing their own wines from their fruit and started their path as not just a grower now, but a winery as well. And they have actually been 100% true to Texas wine. They actually get all of their grapes from Texas and are very proud to be a grower winemaker in that.

[00:05:26] Matter of fact, Allen was one of the founding members of the Texas Wine and Grape Growers Association here in Texas. So they really have deep roots here, pun intended, in the Texas wine industry. Now, after several years of producing wine, in late 2019, they decided to change their vision of where they wanted to reach people. And they ended up selling their property there off Hamilton Pool Road.

[00:05:51] And they moved into a brand new location, about 30 acres or so, right off, again, the Wine Road 290 outside of High. It's just a couple of miles north of the Wine Road 290. Maybe you'll find the entrance to their property and they have now a much greater exposure to, again, the wine tourism that you get there through that region of the Texas Hill Country. Now, as of yet, Allen has yet to decide if he wants to plant some vineyards on the property there.

[00:06:20] They do have a lot of great places, he says, that they could do that there. However, right now they maintain a small little three-acre vineyard in Wimberley. And they do source fruit from other Texas growers around the state, especially in the High Plains area. So they're still going to be 100% Texas. They just haven't made that step forward yet to plant vineyards on the current property where they call home.

[00:06:43] And all your non-wine drinking friends can now rejoice when you take them to West Cave Cellars. Because it's not just West Cave Cellars, it's West Cave Cellars and Brewery. They actually also brew beer on the site. Very interesting story about that you'll get in the interview. So they do have four different styles of beer that they're actually brewing. You can get a flight of those. So all of those people in your party who don't enjoy wine as much as we do also have something that they can enjoy while they're there as well.

[00:07:13] They also do some really fun events. They have a really big grill outside that they love to utilize for some of these events and do a lot of cooking and food preparation. One of the things that Alan talks about in the interview are the pig roasts that they do. He has a very special pulled pork recipe that he got from his North Carolina roots that I've heard is to die for. So that's something you'll have to keep an eye out for. They also do some really cool pairings with foods. They had one that I thought was really fun.

[00:07:42] I'd love to check out sometime. That was a breakfast tacos and wine pairing. Now that's what I'm talking about. Let's get this party started early, right? And get this, if you are interested in West Cave Cellars but it's hard to get to their location, they even have set up some remote tasting opportunities. So if you have like a neighborhood wine club or maybe your business organization, a homeowner's group, some sort of personal group of some kind, and you want to talk to them about bringing a tasting to your group, they will do it.

[00:08:12] They will set up and bring everything out to you, to your location, and do some tastings of those wines where you're at. And even if you're, say, out of state and you can't even get them there to you, they'll even do some remote Zoom-style tastings for you where they can ship you the wine and then they can get online with Zoom and go over some of the tasting notes and things with you as you go through them. So they're really making an effort to not only reach to their customers that come into the tasting group,

[00:08:39] but to all the customers who might want to experience West Cave Cellars wines and maybe can't get there. So check into that if that's something interesting for you as well. Now, when I stopped in to visit, I was lucky to be able to sit down with the owner and winemaker, Alan Fetty, and we sat in their tasting room taking in the beautiful scenic area around us. They had these big glass windows all around the front that we were able to see the countryside, the trees and everything, the hills there.

[00:09:09] And as we took in that great beauty around us, we got to talk a little bit about their history, where they've come from, and the exciting things they're doing at this new location they've been at for the last several years, and kind of what their idea is for the future. So without further ado, let's go to that interview so you can hear directly from Alan. Hi, Divine Trippers.

[00:09:35] Welcome to this episode here at West Cave Cellars. And I'm here with Alan Fetty to go over some of the information about this location and to get you excited about coming to visit here. So without any further ado, Alan, tell me a little bit about yourself. What got you into the wine industry? Well, first of all, Scott, thank you for coming out this morning and visiting. Welcome to West Cave Cellars. We're glad to have you here this morning and look forward to the next hour. So we're talking with you so that it should be interesting.

[00:10:05] My wine journey started maybe 35 years ago in the early 90s. And I worked in the technology industry and had the opportunity to travel significantly, especially to California, which landed me going to Napa Valley on a regular basis, almost once a month for a period of two or three years. So I got to be pretty familiar with Napa Valley and, of course, developed palate for wine.

[00:10:33] And at that time, Napa Valley was significantly different than today. But started collecting wine and developed interest in initially Merlot was the most favorite wine I collected and then moved to Cabernet. But then over the course of 10 years, took journeys into collecting Tempranillo and then Sangiovese or Zinfandel. And, you know, for six or 12-month periods would only focus on those particular wines.

[00:11:02] So learned a lot about the different varietals and where they're grown and what the styles of wine should be. Again, primarily California wines at that time. In the mid-90s, I started an interest in growing grapes. And so planted a small vineyard in my backyard in Dripping Springs. And I had 30 vines and three different rootstocks and three different varieties. So it was kind of my R&D plot, I called it.

[00:11:30] And in my travels, I had opportunity to take classes at UC Davis. So if I was out there during the week, I could stay over Friday, Saturday, Sunday, take extension classes, initially in vineyard development and growing grapes, and then later some classes in the winemaking process. The thought at that time was it was just a hobby. Okay. By the end of the 90s, 97, 98, we were thinking,

[00:11:59] let's buy some land and plant a vineyard and put together a business plan. And said, you know, I'm going to grow grapes. And the data was still a little bit young for Texas, but it was not much different than we know today. It's like you really need 20 acres of grapes as a critical size. There's a lot of people still want to do four, five, three acres or something. And it's just not feasible and cost effective.

[00:12:26] But the goal was to plant three to five acres a year for five years. And it takes five years to get fully mature vines. So after 10 years, you'd have 20 acres of fully mature grapes and might be able to quit my day job. So that was the thought process. And this was 97, 98. So we bought land. We planted the first vineyard, Cabernet Sauvignon, in 1999.

[00:12:55] So we're one of the older growers in the Texas Hill Country and still growing grapes today. That location, we had 65 acres on Hamilton Pool Road. So if you go out Hamilton Pool Road from Austin, you first come across Hamilton Pool Park. But if you go past there, across the Pernales River, there's another park called West Cave Preserve. And we were right across the road from West Cave Preserve.

[00:13:23] So that's where we took the name. Ah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, later on, initially we didn't plan on starting a winery. I was just going to grow grapes and sell grapes to other wineries, which we did for about 10 years. So we got the vineyard established and every year added a few more. Never got to 20 acres. We got to 12 acres at that location. And, of course, life happens. You go through job changes, some career changes.

[00:13:52] Kids grow up, go to college. So, anyway, we never got to 20 acres, but we did get to 12 acres. And we're selling grapes to a number of the popular wineries that we all are familiar with, the older wineries that were the more established. Still going. We're either getting established in the early 2000s or had been there for a while. And then around 2010, our daughter had moved to Seattle.

[00:14:22] And we visited her in Seattle. And I had been making small batches of wine. And the people we sold grapes to were giving me buckets of grapes to go try making wine with these. And so I was learning more about the winemaking process. And sure enough, we go to Seattle and started tasting Washington State wines, which this is around 2010. In my opinion, at that time, they were very expensive for the quality of the wine.

[00:14:49] They're still very expensive, but I think the quality has greatly improved, much like Texas wines have improved. But anyway, it's like, we can do this. And the light bulb went off. The light bulb went off. It's like, we're growing grapes. We can make wine this good. Why shouldn't we do that? And basically came back from that trip to Washington State and applied for the TABC permit.

[00:15:15] And we already had metal buildings at the farm location. We had the grape supplies. So it was just a matter of getting started. Yeah. And jumped off the cliff. And went down that path. We had nine different varieties of grapes at that location. And then we started sourcing grapes from other locations. You know, my background was in operations management. So second sourcing was a big mentality.

[00:15:44] So all the grapes we grew, we looked for a second source of those varieties because of freeze and frost. Yeah. And the sourcing issues associated with that. Unpredictability of the weather in Texas, for sure. Yeah. So those were things, you know, I looked at. And we opened the doors and, you know, built a facility. We had a beautiful property there with beautiful oak trees and everything. And things went pretty well. We grew pretty fast.

[00:16:14] And so it wasn't 10 years later, but it was 14 years later I actually quit my day job. And so I'm one of the few people, so I'm told by the banking community anyway, that this is what I do. You know, I grow grapes, make wine, sell wine. And I don't have a second job. You know, I don't have another source of income. This is it.

[00:16:38] So we live and die on how the winery does and the reputation and the quality of the wine. So it's a big deal. It's important. Very few of the other people have that. We don't have any investors. And it's definitely a mom and pop shop. It's me and my wife are the owners. And, you know, she runs the tasting room primarily. And I grow grapes and make wine. 100% of the wines are made on site. Okay.

[00:17:06] We'll go down that path. You know, I was one of the founding members of the Texas Wine Growers Organization, which is the 100% Texas organization of 100% of all the wines we make are Texas grapes. And 100% of it is made here on site by me. And we don't bring in juice. We make wine for a number of other people.

[00:17:32] But we're very committed to the whole philosophy of terroir and location and regionality and authenticity. It's like if it says Texas on the label, it should have Texas wine in the bottle. So we're strong believers in that. I've also been on the board at the Hill Country Wine Trail. So participated in that. I've been on a number of the wine grower, grape growing committees over the years.

[00:18:03] And right now, kind of backing out out of all those organizations as an active member and, you know, just being a member. Yeah. So we're doing that. You've done your service. You've done a lot there to help those things grow. We're tried. Yep. Do the best we can. Well, let me ask a question. And so as I come out here and I'm in this beautiful tasting room here on this property, we're not out Hamilton Full Road. We're now off 290. And so tell me about the move.

[00:18:31] And do you still have the property there off Hamilton Pool? No, we sold that property. One of the – it was a concern at the time, maybe less so now. But we were getting more and more surrounded as Austin grew by subdivisions. And we were becoming basically the neighborhood winery. And we wanted – we were still growing as a winery and wanted to be more in the mainstream of the Texas Hill Country Wine Trail.

[00:18:58] So in 2019, we sold the property. And it was right at the end of the year. In 2020, found this property on Branch Road 1320 on the road to Sandy. We're just a half a mile off of Highway 290. So we're right here in the middle of Sandy Road now. It has like five wineries. So we have our own little area here. It's a little tributary. And, you know, we're in high Texas in the middle of the winery scene. And we moved here in 2020.

[00:19:28] Right around COVID time. Well, so we actually moved the winery and the wine, got the tasting room open in March, and then everything got shut down. Which, if we had known that, we may have tried to get right on 290 instead of just being slightly off 290. But with the delays that were put in place at that time, it allowed us to finish out the tasting room and build a new winery facility.

[00:19:55] So we officially opened in like September of 2020, COVID year. And so we've been going since then. At the original facility, it was fairly small and very quaint. This one, we have a separate building for the tasting room, separate facility. The winery is a separate facility. And then we have a case storage area as well. And there's also an Airbnb on the property.

[00:20:22] So if people wanted to come and spend time at this location, stay at the Airbnb, there's that opportunity as well. And those are all on the website. Pretty well defined. Wow. Yeah, that's a great little place to come in and kind of make that your home base. We have the winery on site as well as being able to explore other places around the area. Because I know sometimes finding places to stay in the wine order area can be difficult. So having that is a boon. So I like that.

[00:20:50] About how much area do you have here now? How many acres is this? And do you have vineyards planted here on site? We have 30 acres. There are a couple of really good sites to plant vines. And we're still evaluating whether we want to do that. Partly because of the time frame. You know, you plant and it's three or four years before you get a harvest. And then it's really realistically seven to ten years before the vines are mature. And we still farm three acres in Wimberley.

[00:21:18] So we still have our own vineyard where I'm still doing all of the pruning and the spraying. And those grapes are Sangiovese and Cab Franc. And we also source those from two other vineyards as well, the same varieties. So we still have our hands in the farming areas. And the vineyards that we source grapes from, all of them we've been with now more than 10 years.

[00:21:44] Mostly smaller vineyards that I work closely with in Lubbock and West Texas and Sonora, Texas. High Plains area. Yeah, and Wimberley. We have our own. And we've done some recently in the Ponsotock area. So we've got some grapes there. We love Hill Country grapes. They definitely have different characteristics than the High Plains. And not necessarily better, but just different.

[00:22:10] And so we do very often have, for example, a Cabernet from the High Plains and a Cabernet from the Hill Country that we can do side-by-side tastings in the tasting room for people who are interested in seeing the differences between the dirt and the climate and those kinds of characteristics. So it's interesting because you can have, you know, Cabernet from one winemaker from one location and a Cabernet from a winemaker in a different location. And is the differences terroir? Is it the winemaking style or whatever?

[00:22:38] But in this case, you have the same winemaker doing the same typically styles. But so you really get to taste that terroir different. Yeah, exactly. And saying yeast and everything. Yeah. Well, I also noticed that in the name of the winery, it's West Cave Cellars and Brewery. So tell me a little bit about the brewery side of things. Yeah.

[00:22:58] So we had around 2017, one of our club members came forward and was asking me lots and lots of questions about the vineyard, about irrigation and spraying and how do we do harvest and all of these kind of things. And I'm like, what are you trying to do? And he says, well, I want to grow hops. And he was a home brewer and he wanted to go to the next level and grow his own hops. I'm like, well, good luck with that in Texas.

[00:23:27] But he went down that path and planted hops. And, you know, I've helped him out a little bit with the irrigation strategy and spraying. And he started with like 500, I guess they're called rhizomes, plants and they grow tall. So he had to put in like telephone poles, 16 feet tall. And so he was like only the third person to grow hops in Texas on his ranch in Candelia.

[00:23:55] And by 2020, he was up to a full acre of hops. He was very successful. Yeah. At the time. And so, you know, with a theme of 100% Texas, his goal was to make an estate beer, which there's only six or seven estate breweries in the country. And a similar definition to estate wines where everything that goes into that bottle of beer is produced on that estate. So he grew hops. He had a spring well.

[00:24:25] He attempted to grow barley, was not so successful with that. But the barley came from Mason County. Okay. So in 2020, he started producing larger quantities and it's still small beer production, but it's 100% Texas. And I told him, we've kind of gone into a partnership. And I said, I'll get the permit because it's easier for me to get a beer permit, another alcohol permit.

[00:24:54] Tagged on to what you already have. Since I already have one. Yeah. Than for him to start over from scratch. And I bought the equipment. So the brewery is West Cave Cellars, Winnery Brewery. And then we contract with them basically to brew the beer. And so for four or five years, we had 100% Texas beer. Unfortunately, during that snowmageddon, he got froze out.

[00:25:21] And almost all of the hops plants got sent back significantly. And then the following year, we had some rain. And he got a soil-borne mite, similar to like phylloxera in the wine industry. Well, there's no agricultural support for hops growing in Texas. So I think he may still have a couple dozen hops plants that are still alive.

[00:25:51] But he basically lost the whole thing. And so fortunately or unfortunately, during that five-year period, his middle son got really interested in brewing beer. And Porter was working for us in the tasting room. He still is. But he has now become the brewmaster. So he's brewing the beer with his father. And again, all of the beer brewing is done on site.

[00:26:18] And we try to keep four different beers on tap. Two, one is a blonde and one is an ale. And then we have two that we rotate as seasonal beers. Pecan Porter, there's a stout on tap right now. We've done barrel aging, whiskey barrel aging. We've done wine barrel fermentations on the beer. So Porter has played around with quite a few different things. You know, unfortunately, we no longer have Texas hops.

[00:26:47] But the beers are still pretty good and pretty consistent. So it's another option for people coming in if there's four people in a party and there's always one that wants to have a beer. So we'll do a flight of four beers or you can get a pint. We can fill growlers for you or any of that kind of thing.

[00:27:05] And one of the things that I learned that I didn't know before, I actually was able to participate in judging at the San Antonio wine competition this last year, as well as the inaugural Fort Worth wine competition. And as you're drinking wine after wine, or not drinking or spitting, but tasting wine after wine after wine after wine, hundreds of wines in a day, that beer is a palate cleanser.

[00:27:27] And so if you've been tasting a lot of wine throughout the day and you want a little palate cleanser, having that beer there is a great way to do that. Plus, you get to taste some great beers. Yeah. So what's interesting is Patrick, the dad who grew the hops, he drinks wine all the time. And I drink beer all the time. The winemaker drinks beer and the beer maker drinks the wine. I mean, we have a, you know, the ongoing joke is it takes a lot of beer to make wine. And so he always says it takes a lot of wine to make beer.

[00:27:56] But yeah, when he comes here, he won't touch the beer. All he'll drink is wine. Just drink the wine. So. Well, I talked a little bit about where you source your fruit and you bring that in. Do you do all the production of the wine here on site? You talked a little bit about your winery here. 100%. We have trucks and trailers. If we're getting a larger batch, we'll have it freighted in in an air-conditioned trailer from Lubbock area. Most of the time, I'll haul the grapes myself. All of the processing is done here.

[00:28:25] Crushing, distemming, coal stabilizing. We have about 8,000 gallons of stainless tank capacity. All of our reds get barrel aged. And we're very much in a French style. Most of the varietals are Bordeaux-ish. Although we have Rhone, we have Syrah, and of course, Vignet we're pretty well known for. So we have some Rhone varieties. And then we do a number of Italian varietals.

[00:28:55] Most of those are for other tasting rooms. But everything is processed here. Barrel aged, almost exclusively French oak. We've experimented with some Hungarian oak. And the Merlot, we'll use a little bit of American oak. Maybe one barrel out of 10 or something like that. Just to give a little vanilla and almond notes to the Merlot. So we tend to do varietals.

[00:29:25] Yeah? Straight varietals versus blends. Yes. Out of 24 wines on our menu, we probably have three blends. Okay. So the rest, you know, Cabernet, it's Cabernet in a bottle or Merlot or Nebbiolo or whatever. Um, and focus on varietals and ageable wines. Um, you know, part of my background experience of tasting, collecting wine was go back to

[00:29:53] the same winery year after year and buy bottles and let them age. And, you know, after five or six years, now you've got a vertical that you can, when you have friends over, you can open three or four bottles from the same vineyard, same winemaker, but different years where in theory, the only difference is the weather. Um, and see how the different wines are from the same, same location. And that's kind of the, the focus and the style that we've gone down of.

[00:30:21] Varietal wines, ageable, collect them year after year. Um, we do have a Bordeaux blend, you know, Cab Franc, Cab Soft, Merlot, and Saint-Petit-Bordeaux. Um, we have a, uh, a couple other blends, um, that were, uh, uh, from the vineyard specific. So all the reds in that particular, in our original vineyard, uh, we call that Vigneron. Um, and that's pretty much it.

[00:30:48] Um, you know, we have one fun varietal. It's, it's primarily, um, Montipulciano, but it is, it's a minor blends, like 10%, uh, Primitivo and some Trebbiano, and we call it Horny Red. It's a light, fruity wine. It's the only one we make that doesn't get barrel aged. The only red wine. Uh, and it's light, fruity, and fun. Okay. Um. Meant to be drunk young. Yep. Uh, and we serve it chilled.

[00:31:14] Um, so it's, it's a nice wine for those, especially for the, the newer wine drinkers or the, you know, people who don't like the, uh, the more tannic red wines, um, that we tend to make. Well, I love when I get to interview the winemaker as part of the podcast, because I always like to ask the question. So as a winemaker, what are some of your favorite wines to make and to work with? Um, well, we probably make more Merlot and Sangiovese than the others.

[00:31:43] Um, and, um, those are probably two of my favorites, um, for daily drinking. Um, we do make Cabernet. The, the last couple of years, we've really, I've really gotten into the Cab Franc and Petit Bordeaux, um, which leads to a blend. The, the Bordeaux blends with, um, with those, uh, Cab Franc, Petit Bordeaux, Cab Sauve, um, and, and the Merlot is always here.

[00:32:09] Um, so those two, we bottle as varietals, which a lot of people don't. Um, and we've, we've had really good, uh, reviews and good success, um, in the tasting room. You know, there's some education process because a lot of people don't, aren't familiar with Petit Bordeaux. Yeah. As a varietal, for example. But, um, but we've had good luck with those. Yeah. I've heard great things about Petit Bordeaux lately, especially in Texas. It seems to be really doing well here in Texas. I think, I feel like it's doing, doing real well. Yeah.

[00:32:39] Uh, Cab Franc is a little finicky and, and really requires a lot of vineyard, uh, management integration. You, you have to be in the vineyard all the time with the Cab Franc. It's, um, otherwise you're going to end up under ripe and really green. Um, and you ought to be really patient with it. But we've done, we've done real well with, with Cab Franc. Um, what are some of your popular wines with customers? What are the ones that just people keep saying, I got to have more of this. It's hard to keep on the show.

[00:33:08] Um, so the last, we've only been doing Savion Blanc for about three years and the last two years, it's really been fantastic. Uh, the quality fruit, and this is High Plains, uh, quality fruit has been really good and it's, um, been really nice varietal specific. So people can identify it right away if they've had a California Savion Blanc. Right. Um, that one is, is doing really well. We've, we've always had a good reputation for our barrel fermented, uh, V&A.

[00:33:38] Um, so it's a little richer, a little heavier V&A. Um, those are the two whites that sell the most. Um, for the more novice or the younger age drinkers, the Horny Red and, and Sangiovese in general, um, are, are more medium bodied wines that really do well here. Um, the more experienced wine drinkers, they go right for the, the Bordeaux blend, the Cab Sauve, Merlot. So, um, occasionally we'll have a Primitivo. Um, so they'll go after that.

[00:34:08] Um, so it kind of depends on the age group and the level of experience that the people have. And for those that don't know, Primitivo is also similar. There's a lot of debate about it, but similar to Zinfandel. Some people say it is Zinfandel. Some people say it's similar, but, but so if you're familiar with Zinfandel, Primitivo is the Italian, uh, style of that wine. So if you like Zinfandel, you'll love Primitivo. And we make it in a heavier red, big red style, not, not in a lighter fruitier style.

[00:34:34] So, and again, that's an ageable wine that, um, I think we're still drinking at home, the 2018. And it's, it's just now really, uh. Coming into its own. Coming in, yeah. Now you got me ready to taste some wines, but let's talk for a second about the location here. Do you do any kind of events or activities or things here that, that people like to come to? Um, well, we try to keep up with all the, the standard things like the, uh, eclipse last year. We had, had a big thing, a big event for that.

[00:35:01] Um, coming up April 12th, um, we're doing, um, a pig roast. We have a huge grill out back. Um, and Margaret and I grew up in North Carolina. We're not from there, but we grew up there and went to college there. So I picked up this, uh, pulled pork, um, style of grilling and we cook a whole pig with the head and feet and skin on the grill. And, you know, we used to call it a pig picking where you could go and pick the meat off the bones yourself.

[00:35:29] And we do allow that, um, after majority of the meat's been, been pulled. Um, but we, we cook a whole pig on, on the fire pit, uh, for 24 hours. And it's a vinegar base, that clear vinegar base sauce with some red peppers with spicy. Um, and, um, we also, whatever's left, we make into what we call pulled pork nachos and they're available in the chasing room, um, on a regular basis. Um, and again, it's, it's North Carolina style pulled pork.

[00:35:56] Um, not, there's various other styles, but, um, so people either really go crazy over that or, you know, it's, it's too, too spicy or, or, uh, too vinegary for them. But, um, um, we sometimes have music. Um, this site has not been as good for music as our original location. Um, just, uh, the traffic, I think people are on two 90 or they don't hang out as much as they used to at the more, the more main for place. Yeah.

[00:36:25] At the neighborhood location, they would come and hang out. So we had better crowds for music. Um, but we, we still did have music occasionally. Um, we have other food events. Um, you know, you have to check the Facebook or the webpage to see what's going on. We'll do, um, uh, brisket and sausage. We do sausage wraps. Um, we have done, um, breakfast tacos, uh, wine pairing. You have to buy tickets and you got to get here at, uh, 10 a.m. on a Saturday morning.

[00:36:55] And we have, uh, um, like five different breakfast tacos that we have them paired. Um, we do Halloween candy tasting. Um, uh, we have done, and we are planning one for, for May, June, um, a Riedel glassware tasting. If, if anybody's familiar with that, the Riedel, um, glasses are, are very unique and they do have an impact on the flavors and aromas.

[00:37:20] And we have the Riedel representative come in, um, and you get, um, they, they walk you through four different styles of glassware, four different wines. So we have small bite tastings. Um, and you get to keep the glasses. Of course, there's a fee, but, um, you get the tasting and, and the explanation. And then you go home with your Riedel. And you have your own Riedel glass. Oh yeah. If you can make it home without breaking it. Yeah. They are, they are very Tinder. Fransom. Yeah.

[00:37:49] Um, so we typically in a, in a given month, two weekends out of the month, we have something. Okay. Um, year round, um, and it's seasonal as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and as I'm looking at this beautiful tasting room, I love the whole front is by glass for those of you that are watching, kind of see a little bit, uh, we're right here at the front of the tasting room and just all the beautiful live oaks and everything is such a beautiful property out here. It is. Um, we were very fortunate to, to get this property and this was originally a home.

[00:38:19] Uh, so we're sitting now, what was the front screened in porch? Um, and we glassed it in and, and, um, made it part of the tasting room. Um, but it is, uh, my wife did all the design and decorations of it. And, um, you know, it's, it came out very nice. Uh, we have full kitchen. Um, we have a pretty decent food menu, um, now with 15 or 18 items. So don't hesitate to come if, if you want to come and get something, a bite to eat and, and a bottle of wine.

[00:38:47] Um, the oak trees on this property, we have five or six different, um, varieties. I can't name them all, but certainly the live oaks. Um, we have post oaks. We have blackjack oaks, um, that grow tall and they're deciduous. So they're, the ones out back are, um, provide more shade in the summer. Um, um, and they grow taller and straighter than the live oaks, which tend to be, you know, all over the place. Yeah.

[00:39:15] Um, so, and, you know, so we have a variety of, of different, um, trees here and we have a pretty big open area. You could walk or picnic, um, seating outside, um, bring a picnic, bring your dogs, bring your kids. Um, we do not have a playground, but, um, you know, kids are certainly welcome and, uh, pets are welcome. And I love the little drive that you come in. So you come in this little drive and it's really not far off of the road, but with all

[00:39:44] the trees and the landscaping here, you feel like you're just out in the middle of the country. It's very private. Yeah. All right. So let's say a listener is going to come in to do a tasting. We talked about a few of the things you have going on there. So kids are fine, uh, pets, things like that are fine. When they come in to do a tasting of wines or maybe even the beers, what does that look like? Do they typically get it? Do you have a provided flight of wines that they typically use or do the customers get to pick or what does the tasting look like?

[00:40:14] So we have, um, typically we have a menu that's easy to read and you can also, uh, scan it with the QR code, um, in advance or online. And then before you get here, you can look at it. But typically we have three or four different flights or menu options. Um, and they range, um, there is a price from $20 to $35. Okay. Um, so we, we try to keep something at the lower end for the more novice.

[00:40:43] The, the basic wine menu is going to be two whites, a rosé and two reds. Okay. And they're going to be lighter bodied reds. Um, and the, the generic whites that, you know, people are going to recognize. Um, then you move into a, a more red flight that might have one white or rosé and three reds. And they're going to be more full bodied reds. Um, and then we always have what we call the estate or the heavy, the big red, the big red menu.

[00:41:12] And sometimes there's two versions of that because we do have quite a few wines. Okay. Um, and so if you're just a red wine drinker, um, and you want to get a charcuterie tray and, and just drink red wine. Yeah. Um, typically if you're sitting inside, um, we, we do like reservations, but we allow walk-ins up to like group sizes of six. Um, um, but we prefer reservation, even if it's just a couple and then you can, um, pick

[00:41:41] a table, um, and we'll, we come and pour the wines and give a description, an explanation, um, where the grapes came from, what year it is, you know, what might be unique about that particular batch of wine or that particular vintage. Yeah. Um, if you bring food and you want to sit outside, if you bring your own food, um, typically we'll pour all five or six wines in that flight, um, and bring them out to you, um, so that

[00:42:08] you can sample them on your own, uh, without people, without waiting on somebody to come in and outside. Okay. Um, uh, if you do have a group and you want to, you know, like a private tasting, we'll, we assign somebody and they'll, they'll pour for you. Um, and inside, you know, we handle groups. Uh, we've had groups as large as 20, 24. Um, you know, certainly would like a reservation on those.

[00:42:33] Um, we do have a private room in the back if you want to have a, uh, private event, you know, um, if you're a small business and you want to have a team building exercise or something, again, we can provide food, um, and wine and beer, um, and any other, you know, things that, uh, you, you may want, um, everything is movable so we can move tables around and push them together for different group sizes.

[00:42:57] Um, and, um, so we try to accommodate just about every situation in a tasting room. Those reservations, do they, can they do this on the website? Do they need to call? Um, you can go online and both. Okay. You can be at the front of the driveway and call and, and, you know, ask if there's tables available, come on in, um, or, uh, you know, online, um, you may be required for like a $10 deposit per person, uh, especially like a group of six. Okay.

[00:43:26] Um, and then, um, with that, if you do that a day or two in advance, when you come in, we'll have the tables already set and the glasses on the table and, and your name on that table. So it's a reserved place for you. Uh, and so then regardless of how busy that day is, you've got your table for that time slot. You're set up. Yeah. But what are your operating hours? Um, they change throughout the year. Happy to stump you here.

[00:43:53] Um, but, uh, typically it's, it's 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. Um, and those certainly are summer hours. So that's what we're in right now. Um, and right now we're doing Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Sundays are noon to six. Um, in the winter time, we generally cut back to five o'clock, um, because it's dark. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, we always frown on people driving home after drinking too much wine, uh, in the

[00:44:21] dark and there's deer and all the other things that happen here. Right. Um, so, you know, we, we try to get people out of here while it's still daylight. Okay. What would you say are some of your busy and slower times? What's the best time for someone to come visit? Um, certainly the 11 to one o'clock time slot. Okay. Um, is, um, our least busy. Um, and again, it's maybe because of our location, people are zooming out closer to Fredericksburg

[00:44:50] and they're stopping here on the way back. Three to five is usually the busiest time. Um, and again, I, we sort of think that's because people are on their way home and we may be their, their third or fourth stop. Um, so, you know, the earlier you come, the more attention you're going to get, um, and let, and the more privacy less, there are less noise. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier about a wine club. So yeah, I'm assuming you do have a wine club. Tell me a little bit about that.

[00:45:18] Um, there's no fee to join. Okay. And we do four shipments, uh, a year once per quarter. Um, and you can be four, six or 12 bottle members. And then there's some options within there. You can be all red or all white or, or variety. Um, uh, so there's, there's those options. And then you also had the option of picking up wine at, um, at the location at the winery or, um, we'll ship it to you. Uh, we do ship nationwide.

[00:45:47] We have shipped a couple outside the country as well. Um, so we, and we've had some only club members come and go or they got moved offshore and they got, they still took their wines. So we'll, we'll figure out how to ship, uh, wherever we need to ship it to. Um, the interesting thing about the, the being a wine club member is if you choose to come on the wine club pickup day, um, we do two seatings, um, in, uh, our tasting room and

[00:46:16] we have, uh, a set of four glasses set up for you when you come in. And, um, we have what we call small bites that have been tasted and paired with the wines we're going to serve. Curated. Yes. And we do, I have to go through all those tastings with the, with Monica and Margaret to get the right. I bet that's a rough thing. That's the rough thing that I have to do. So, um, but they're paired, um, with the wines we're tasting.

[00:46:41] And of the four samples you get that day, um, two are usually wines that you're picking up, uh, as a club member. And then two are usually wines that we're targeting for the next shipment. Ah, sneak preview. And it's a sneak preview. And typically those are ones that are still in a barrel or in a tank. So they're not yet bottled. Everybody wants, can I buy these now? It's like, no, it's not even a bottle. So you got to wait till a future club shipment. So there's a little tease there.

[00:47:11] Um, but, um, they, they get a sneak preview of what's coming and, you know, um, and that's paired with, um, a small snack as well. So, um, and that's, then they can pick up their wines afterwards and, and, um, you know, we have a couple of seatings there. You have to make a reservation or sign up for our time slot, um, on that pickup party as well. Um, uh, and that happens four times a year.

[00:47:36] It's the first Sunday of March, uh, June, September, and December. Okay. Um, well, let's say that somebody is interested in tasting your wine, but for whatever reason they're having a hard time, maybe they live far away or something, having a hard time getting here to the tasting room. Do you do any kind of distribution or can they buy your wines on your website or what does that look like? All of our wines are available on the website. Um, and certainly at any time they can call, um, we, we do remote tastings.

[00:48:06] Um, if you're head of a homeowners association or a neighborhood wine club, we'll come to people's house and set up a menu, um, a food menu and a tasting. Um, so we've done a number of real estate events, homeowners association, wine clubs. Um, and so we'll go on the road and bring it to you. Um, if you call and set up, we're actually doing, um, uh, a couple of zoom style wine tastings.

[00:48:35] One's going to be in, in Mississippi and the people were visiting and tasted our wines. And so we're now going through fixing the menu. And this woman has a wine club in her neighborhood with like 60 people. Um, so we're going to set this up and do it remotely. I love that West cave cellars on the road. Well, we're trying. That's really cool. Um, generally to answer your question, we are not in distribution.

[00:49:00] Um, we're, we're probably in 10 or 15, uh, restaurants, wine shops. Um, we self-distribute, um, you know, um, a couple of downtown Austin grocers, um, and some restaurants, Fredericksburg has, uh, one or two of the restaurants there have our wines. Um, so you have that. And if you want our wines at some restaurant, ask, ask them, uh, or tell them, why don't you have West cave?

[00:49:27] And, and we'll go, we'll figure out how to get it in there. I like that. Ask for Texas wines. Yeah. And ask for West cave cellars wines. So we've talked a little bit about the property here and everything you've got going on and the, the changes you've made over the years with the move and adding in the brewery and things like that. Do you have plans for future growth? What might that look like? Um, I do not. To be, to be very open up. I want to stay steady. It's like, uh, you know, Margaret and I are in our, um, in our later years.

[00:49:57] And we are in the, uh, winding down. Okay. Winding down maybe. Um, and so no plans to grow. Um, certainly we have enough wine capacity. Um, you know, we always wanted to be a 2000 case winery. Um, we, we are there. We have that capacity to grow beyond that if we want to. Um, and you know, maybe the next people would be interested in that.

[00:50:24] We certainly have space, uh, land, uh, for vineyards and, and good sites for vineyards. Um, and whether, whether I initiate that and get it going or whether the next person does that, you know, that remains to be seen though. Yeah. Whether that's in this chapter or the next. That's right. The potential's there. You know, and, and wineries tend to be, uh, generational things. Um, and the wineries that survive 50, 80, a hundred years generally have multiple generations

[00:50:54] that take, that come in and take over the daughters or sons or grandchildren or whatever. Um, we don't have that luxury. Yeah. So the, you know, the next person is going to get a clean slate, um, to come in and, and, uh, potentially do their thing completely different or, you know, even change the name. But carry on that legacy that you have created. If that's what they choose to do. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of great places in Texas that people can go and drink great wines and visit West Cave Cellars being one of those.

[00:51:23] So tell me in your opinion, what do you think really sets West Cave Cellars and brewery apart that people would say, man, I really got it. I've got to get there. I want to go check that out. Yeah. So, you know, we, we do, um, what we call wine, uh, grape to bottle tours or wine to bottle. Okay. Um, and take them in the winery and show them how the, uh, everything is processed. Um, the equipment, um, we do barrel tastings, we do tank tastings. We can do multiple years. We can do the same year from different types of barrels.

[00:51:52] Um, depending on the level of knowledge and the interest that the, the tour person provides. But the thing I always tell them is that we are, um, I'm going to say one of the few, uh, truly authentic wineries in Central Texas. We grow grapes. Uh, we make wine. We process everything here. Um, we're very proud to be a hundred percent Texas. Um, and you know, we love our Texas clientele. We love the outside of Texas people as well.

[00:52:21] Um, but, you know, being part of the Texas wine industry for so long and seeing how it's grown and the quality improvements that have been made. And we ourselves have gone through those, those, uh, quality of wine improvements, quality of grape growing improvements. Um, and you know, it's, it's been fun to be part of this industry and work with all the other, uh, wine growers and winemakers. Most of them are much younger than I am.

[00:52:49] Um, so they're, you know, they're a lot more energetic and great ideas. And so I've learned a lot. Um, but being part of the Texas wine industry and having that authenticity of just, you know, this is it. This is real Texas wine, real Texas grapes, um, you know, come out and, and, and visit and it's all made here.

[00:53:19] Real Texas wine, real Texas grapes. That definitely sums up the story of West Cave Cellars. And you'll definitely get to see that as they have weathered so many interesting changes throughout the Texas wine industry over the last couple of decades. And they're continuing to bring you amazing wine, amazing service and an amazing property there. Now, as always, don't forget to check out their website before you go visit them. It's www.westcavecellars.com.

[00:53:47] And when you go to visit their website, you can find all kinds of information more about the winery itself. You'll see some information about what to expect when you come to visit. You can get that notes and information down before you go. Uh, you can find information about those tours and tastings that Alan talked about in the interview, as well as finding out information about their wine club, some of their current events and things that are coming up on the calendar. And of course, their wine shop where you can go in and buy some of those great wines to taste before you even go.

[00:54:17] And as always, once I finished the interview, I was able to move on over to the tasting bar, sit down with Alan. And we got to taste through several of those great wines that they are serving there at West Cave Cellars. And they had so many good choices. Again, it made my choice difficult. I knew I had to narrow down to one to pick. And so when all was said and done, I ended up choosing their 2021 Cabernet Franc. This is a Texas wine from the Texas High Plains Cooper Valley Vineyard.

[00:54:46] And it was so rich and delicious. It had great notes of flavors of plum and cherry, but it also had some great spice notes and even some herbal notes on it that you might expect when you use Cabernet Franc. Very much my taste palette, the type of wines I like to drink. So I had to snatch up a bottle of this to bring home with me now for my wine library for this episode. And with that, my time is up.

[00:55:13] It's time for me to wander off to many other great Texas wine destinations so I can bring you all the scoop and great info on those places and the great Texas wine scene that we have here. But first, I thought I'd make a few small requests. If you are enjoying the show and the content that I'm bringing to you, all of these great places for you to go explore and drink great wine here in Texas. First off, go visit these great locations. Go show them some love that you've been hearing about and getting excited about them.

[00:55:43] Now go visit them and check them out and tell them that Texas Undervine sent you when you go and enjoy some of these great wines that you've been hearing about on the show. Secondly, though, share the podcast with all of your friends and your wine-loving friends. Hey, even those who drink beer would love to go to West Cave Cellar. So start sharing the show with your friends and those people who might also benefit from finding out about these great wine destinations we have here in Texas. And thirdly, if you wouldn't mind, leave me a rating and review wherever you get this podcast.

[00:56:13] It just takes a few seconds of your time. It's really easy to do. I'll let you pick the rating you would like, but leave me a sentence or two of a review, what you think of the show, and that really helps it to be seen by other people so that we can continue to share the great news about Texas wine and Texas wine destinations. Also, if you're watching this episode here on my YouTube channel, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe. And if you would, go down below the video and leave a comment down there. Tell me what you think about West Cave Cellars if you've been there before.

[00:56:43] What's your favorite thing about West Cave Cellars? But if you haven't been, if you haven't decided to by the interview today, then leave a comment telling me what you're most looking forward to seeing when you go. And with that, my time is up. So don't forget, subscribe to the podcast and follow my socials to be notified anytime a brand new episode is released. And until then, happy trails and bottoms up, y'all. Thanks for listening to Texas Undervine.

[00:57:13] We strive to provide you with the best information about wine businesses all over Texas. Be sure to check out our website at texasundervine.com and follow us on our socials at Texas Undervine to stay up on all the upcoming episodes. Please email us with any suggestions or feedback. Also, contact us if you're interested in donating, sponsoring, or advertising on the podcast just to help us cover our expenses and bring even more great info to you in future episodes.

[00:57:39] Above all, travel safely and most especially, drink responsibly. Howdy, Vine Trippers. Did you know that I now have a merchandise store for Texas Undervine? I only have a handful of limited items, but you can go check those out and wear your Texas Undervine swag if you'd like to tell all your friends about the great wine locations we have

[00:58:07] here in Texas and maybe get them interested in the podcast as well. So there are things like t-shirts, there's a hoodie, there's a beanie, a ball cap, things like that. But one of the most exciting things I have right now is my limited time offer t-shirt. That's my season one t-shirt. So this is your Tasting Through Texas, Texas Undervine season one t-shirt. It's only going to be available for a little short amount of time. On the back, it has all the different locations like a band tour t-shirt. So this is a limited time item and you can go out and get it now.

[00:58:37] And one of the great things about that t-shirt is a portion of every sale goes to support the Texas Hill Country Winery Scholarship Fund. So you know that by buying that t-shirt, you're also investing in the growing and flourishing of an amazing wine industry here in Texas and all of those people that are going to come and make it even better. Check out that merchandise store. It's on my website at texasundervine.com. Just go up to the top. You'll see the link for the merchandise store.